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	<title>Comments on: Bok emblem: here comes trouble</title>
	<link>http://www.sportsleader.co.za/tonymckeever/2008/11/01/the-end-of-the-bok-is-nigh-or-is-this-boknaai-as-we-know-it/</link>
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	<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2012 14:26:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: JustAnotherBEEspiv</title>
		<link>http://www.sportsleader.co.za/tonymckeever/2008/11/01/the-end-of-the-bok-is-nigh-or-is-this-boknaai-as-we-know-it/#comment-5477</link>
		<author>JustAnotherBEEspiv</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Nov 2008 07:36:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sportsleader.co.za/tonymckeever/2008/11/01/the-end-of-the-bok-is-nigh-or-is-this-boknaai-as-we-know-it/#comment-5477</guid>
		<description>Ah yes TM... wrong again the Bok still lives... much to you're and your pals Stofile et al's derision.

And they, your pals from the EC that have titsed-up yet another RSA sports fiscal year, get to earn some more gravy from the 'rights' (ironic word that when forced) SARU has to pay to display the enforced Protea.

Kudos!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah yes TM&#8230; wrong again the Bok still lives&#8230; much to you&#8217;re and your pals Stofile et al&#8217;s derision.</p>
<p>And they, your pals from the EC that have titsed-up yet another RSA sports fiscal year, get to earn some more gravy from the &#8216;rights&#8217; (ironic word that when forced) SARU has to pay to display the enforced Protea.</p>
<p>Kudos!
<p align="right"><a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://sportsleader.co.za/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=5477', 400, 400)">(Report abuse)</a></p>
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		<title>By: Tony McKeever</title>
		<link>http://www.sportsleader.co.za/tonymckeever/2008/11/01/the-end-of-the-bok-is-nigh-or-is-this-boknaai-as-we-know-it/#comment-5342</link>
		<author>Tony McKeever</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 05:12:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sportsleader.co.za/tonymckeever/2008/11/01/the-end-of-the-bok-is-nigh-or-is-this-boknaai-as-we-know-it/#comment-5342</guid>
		<description>A Lion in Springbok Clothing - from Scotland

 09 November 2008 

LIFE AT the top of the international game is not an easy one. No sooner have New Zealand left town than the Springboks pitch up to Murrayfield next weekend and, with just 28 players to choose from, Peter de Villiers couldn't pick a second XV if he wanted to.

South Africa's first non-white coach took over from one of the country's most successful and it is one of the oddities of international sport that Jake White, the man who led the Springboks to the ultimate prize in rugby, should be reduced to an advisory role with the University of Cape Town while Graham Henry, the man who led New Zealand to their earliest ever World Cup exit, remains in situ.

"To be fair New Zealand had tried sacking coaches after the World Cup and it hasn't worked," says White. "They got rid of John Hart and they got rid of John Mitchell and it hadn't helped their cause. I applaud the NZRFU for keeping Henry because it showed that they had learnt from their mistakes. Despite losing a whole raft of players to Europe – Carl Hayman, Byron Kelleher, Chris Jack – Henry bounced back and won the Tri- Nations."

Not that White has been taking things easy since that famous night in Paris. First of all he was fending off feelers from the likes of Ireland, Wales and Italy – "I wasn't ready to go back to international rugby" – and secondly he was helping to write his biography, In Black And White: The Jake White Story. 

The book has been sitting atop the South Africa best sellers list for months now and deservedly so. It shines a welcome light into the murky world of South African rugby, where politics' poisonous brew is always bubbling just below the surface. In the book, White calls the political interference he suffered "diabolical" but he seems to have mellowed a little in the intervening months and he now prefers more moderate language: "I would say that the circumstances of the South African coach are unique."

White claims to be apolitical but he must have the survival instincts of a cockroach because he was the first Springbok coach to last four whole seasons in the snake pit that is the South African Rugby Union. He is quite open about what he calls "transformation", acknowledging that the days of an all-white South African team are long gone and boasting that he selected a non-white player in every position in the starting line up except fly-half.

For all that, White is a traditionalist at heart, preferring the formal gold-trimmed Springbok blazer to a tracksuit on match days, and it is no surprise to hear that he vehemently disagrees with SARU's move to downsize the famous Springbok emblem on the shirt and replace it with a King Protea flower.

"You must understand that the Springbok was never a symbol of apartheid, it was a symbol of excellence. We even had people from the townships telling us this. England's cricketers have a different badge to their rugby players, the All Blacks have their haka, Argentina are known as the Pumas, I don't think it would look right to get rid of the Springbok emblem."

Whatever they are called, White's former team have enjoyed something of a rollercoaster ride of late. De Villiers coached them to a win in New Zealand, something his predecessor never managed, but back-to-back losses on home soil saw the knives being sharpened for the new coach. His team's response was an emphatic 53-8 hammering of the Wallabies which saw a welcome return to the sort of no-frills rugby that is indelibly associated with the Boks at their best. 

The new man had been accused of trying to play too much expansive stuff in the early games; De Villiers once promised that Springboks rugby would "never be conservative" while most people defined the Africans in exactly those terms. The players flexed their muscles, with Victor Matfield and skipper John Smit in particular giving pointed interviews about playing "direct rugby".

"Peter understandably wanted to stamp his own mark on the team when he took over and that is something that all coaches want to do," says White, "but you have to be careful. You must never move away from your core strengths. Scotland have always been superb at rucking and New Zealand have always had running backs, especially with the influence of the islanders who have come into the side. 

"South Africa's own strength is defence, we are one of the few sides that can win the game without the ball. This should not been seen as a negative, instead it's a massive positive. I always said that defence would win the World Cup, that has been true for the last few tournaments and history has a way of repeating itself. You must never move too far from your core game." It is a lesson that Frank Hadden should heed. This mantra was illustrated on White's last visit to Murrayfield ahead of the World Cup. The biggest, beefiest Scottish team ever to take the field had spent long months in the gym and, after demolishing the Irish forwards, there was some hope of doing something similar to the Springboks in the final warm-up match. It was not to be as South Africa ran out easy winners while restricting the home team to one meagre penalty. It proved to White that his team were progressing along the right lines.

Fast forward 14 months and the world champions are effectively in training for next year's Lions tour. The team almost picks itself while the biggest problem is where to play the two wunderkinder of South African rugby. Frans Stayn started yesterday's match against Wales on the substitutes' bench while the extravagantly gifted Ruan Pienaar filled the No.10 shirt. In the past White has picked Pienaar in both halfback slots, on the wing and at full-back, the shirt his father Gysie filled for the Springboks, so what is Junior's best position?

"In a country like ours what you have to do is look where there are established players in place," says White. "At scrum-half we have Ricky Januarie and Fourie du Preez, who may be the best scrum-half in the world. We have centres like Jean de Villiers and Jaque Fourie and wingers in JP Peterson and Bryan Habana. There are just two positions where we don't have young established players, 10 and 15, so that is where these two should play. Look forward to the next World Cup and you could have Du Preez, Pienaar, De Villiers, Fourie, JP Peterson, Habana and Steyn. That's not a bad back line. It's a little like Chris Paterson. He has played at 10, 15 and 14 but if you want to be the best in the world you must settle on one position."

The question still remains, just where will the World Cup-winning coach end up? The immediate answer is bossing the Barbarians with his old friend and rival Eddie Jones when the invitation team plays against the Wallabies at Wembley on December 3. Jones set the precedent of taking up arms against his fellow countrymen when accepting employment from South Africa; might White do the same when the British and Irish Lions tour his own country next year?

"I have made it clear that I am available to South African rugby to help in any way that I can, but I need to get back into professional rugby and I'd like to put it on the record that as a professional coach I have no problem with getting involved with the Lions.

"Being the head coach of the Barbarians and perhaps getting involved with the Lions, that's why you get into coaching and, if the opportunity comes along, I will have a look at it." 

It is surely the sort of black and white offer that Ian McGeechan cannot refuse.

Well Ian McGeehan has refused and Peter de Villiers and Jake White seem set to square off regarding the refusal of SA Rugby to allow 6 Springboks to play in a Barbarians game on the 3rd December.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A Lion in Springbok Clothing - from Scotland</p>
<p> 09 November 2008 </p>
<p>LIFE AT the top of the international game is not an easy one. No sooner have New Zealand left town than the Springboks pitch up to Murrayfield next weekend and, with just 28 players to choose from, Peter de Villiers couldn&#8217;t pick a second XV if he wanted to.</p>
<p>South Africa&#8217;s first non-white coach took over from one of the country&#8217;s most successful and it is one of the oddities of international sport that Jake White, the man who led the Springboks to the ultimate prize in rugby, should be reduced to an advisory role with the University of Cape Town while Graham Henry, the man who led New Zealand to their earliest ever World Cup exit, remains in situ.</p>
<p>&#8220;To be fair New Zealand had tried sacking coaches after the World Cup and it hasn&#8217;t worked,&#8221; says White. &#8220;They got rid of John Hart and they got rid of John Mitchell and it hadn&#8217;t helped their cause. I applaud the NZRFU for keeping Henry because it showed that they had learnt from their mistakes. Despite losing a whole raft of players to Europe – Carl Hayman, Byron Kelleher, Chris Jack – Henry bounced back and won the Tri- Nations.&#8221;</p>
<p>Not that White has been taking things easy since that famous night in Paris. First of all he was fending off feelers from the likes of Ireland, Wales and Italy – &#8220;I wasn&#8217;t ready to go back to international rugby&#8221; – and secondly he was helping to write his biography, In Black And White: The Jake White Story. </p>
<p>The book has been sitting atop the South Africa best sellers list for months now and deservedly so. It shines a welcome light into the murky world of South African rugby, where politics&#8217; poisonous brew is always bubbling just below the surface. In the book, White calls the political interference he suffered &#8220;diabolical&#8221; but he seems to have mellowed a little in the intervening months and he now prefers more moderate language: &#8220;I would say that the circumstances of the South African coach are unique.&#8221;</p>
<p>White claims to be apolitical but he must have the survival instincts of a cockroach because he was the first Springbok coach to last four whole seasons in the snake pit that is the South African Rugby Union. He is quite open about what he calls &#8220;transformation&#8221;, acknowledging that the days of an all-white South African team are long gone and boasting that he selected a non-white player in every position in the starting line up except fly-half.</p>
<p>For all that, White is a traditionalist at heart, preferring the formal gold-trimmed Springbok blazer to a tracksuit on match days, and it is no surprise to hear that he vehemently disagrees with SARU&#8217;s move to downsize the famous Springbok emblem on the shirt and replace it with a King Protea flower.</p>
<p>&#8220;You must understand that the Springbok was never a symbol of apartheid, it was a symbol of excellence. We even had people from the townships telling us this. England&#8217;s cricketers have a different badge to their rugby players, the All Blacks have their haka, Argentina are known as the Pumas, I don&#8217;t think it would look right to get rid of the Springbok emblem.&#8221;</p>
<p>Whatever they are called, White&#8217;s former team have enjoyed something of a rollercoaster ride of late. De Villiers coached them to a win in New Zealand, something his predecessor never managed, but back-to-back losses on home soil saw the knives being sharpened for the new coach. His team&#8217;s response was an emphatic 53-8 hammering of the Wallabies which saw a welcome return to the sort of no-frills rugby that is indelibly associated with the Boks at their best. </p>
<p>The new man had been accused of trying to play too much expansive stuff in the early games; De Villiers once promised that Springboks rugby would &#8220;never be conservative&#8221; while most people defined the Africans in exactly those terms. The players flexed their muscles, with Victor Matfield and skipper John Smit in particular giving pointed interviews about playing &#8220;direct rugby&#8221;.</p>
<p>&#8220;Peter understandably wanted to stamp his own mark on the team when he took over and that is something that all coaches want to do,&#8221; says White, &#8220;but you have to be careful. You must never move away from your core strengths. Scotland have always been superb at rucking and New Zealand have always had running backs, especially with the influence of the islanders who have come into the side. </p>
<p>&#8220;South Africa&#8217;s own strength is defence, we are one of the few sides that can win the game without the ball. This should not been seen as a negative, instead it&#8217;s a massive positive. I always said that defence would win the World Cup, that has been true for the last few tournaments and history has a way of repeating itself. You must never move too far from your core game.&#8221; It is a lesson that Frank Hadden should heed. This mantra was illustrated on White&#8217;s last visit to Murrayfield ahead of the World Cup. The biggest, beefiest Scottish team ever to take the field had spent long months in the gym and, after demolishing the Irish forwards, there was some hope of doing something similar to the Springboks in the final warm-up match. It was not to be as South Africa ran out easy winners while restricting the home team to one meagre penalty. It proved to White that his team were progressing along the right lines.</p>
<p>Fast forward 14 months and the world champions are effectively in training for next year&#8217;s Lions tour. The team almost picks itself while the biggest problem is where to play the two wunderkinder of South African rugby. Frans Stayn started yesterday&#8217;s match against Wales on the substitutes&#8217; bench while the extravagantly gifted Ruan Pienaar filled the No.10 shirt. In the past White has picked Pienaar in both halfback slots, on the wing and at full-back, the shirt his father Gysie filled for the Springboks, so what is Junior&#8217;s best position?</p>
<p>&#8220;In a country like ours what you have to do is look where there are established players in place,&#8221; says White. &#8220;At scrum-half we have Ricky Januarie and Fourie du Preez, who may be the best scrum-half in the world. We have centres like Jean de Villiers and Jaque Fourie and wingers in JP Peterson and Bryan Habana. There are just two positions where we don&#8217;t have young established players, 10 and 15, so that is where these two should play. Look forward to the next World Cup and you could have Du Preez, Pienaar, De Villiers, Fourie, JP Peterson, Habana and Steyn. That&#8217;s not a bad back line. It&#8217;s a little like Chris Paterson. He has played at 10, 15 and 14 but if you want to be the best in the world you must settle on one position.&#8221;</p>
<p>The question still remains, just where will the World Cup-winning coach end up? The immediate answer is bossing the Barbarians with his old friend and rival Eddie Jones when the invitation team plays against the Wallabies at Wembley on December 3. Jones set the precedent of taking up arms against his fellow countrymen when accepting employment from South Africa; might White do the same when the British and Irish Lions tour his own country next year?</p>
<p>&#8220;I have made it clear that I am available to South African rugby to help in any way that I can, but I need to get back into professional rugby and I&#8217;d like to put it on the record that as a professional coach I have no problem with getting involved with the Lions.</p>
<p>&#8220;Being the head coach of the Barbarians and perhaps getting involved with the Lions, that&#8217;s why you get into coaching and, if the opportunity comes along, I will have a look at it.&#8221; </p>
<p>It is surely the sort of black and white offer that Ian McGeechan cannot refuse.</p>
<p>Well Ian McGeehan has refused and Peter de Villiers and Jake White seem set to square off regarding the refusal of SA Rugby to allow 6 Springboks to play in a Barbarians game on the 3rd December.
<p align="right"><a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://sportsleader.co.za/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=5342', 400, 400)">(Report abuse)</a></p>
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		<title>By: Tony McKeever</title>
		<link>http://www.sportsleader.co.za/tonymckeever/2008/11/01/the-end-of-the-bok-is-nigh-or-is-this-boknaai-as-we-know-it/#comment-5314</link>
		<author>Tony McKeever</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 05:03:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sportsleader.co.za/tonymckeever/2008/11/01/the-end-of-the-bok-is-nigh-or-is-this-boknaai-as-we-know-it/#comment-5314</guid>
		<description>Owen - my point exactly. As much as the Protea is a symbol, so is the Springbok - both National South African symbols.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Owen - my point exactly. As much as the Protea is a symbol, so is the Springbok - both National South African symbols.
<p align="right"><a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://sportsleader.co.za/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=5314', 400, 400)">(Report abuse)</a></p>
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		<title>By: owen</title>
		<link>http://www.sportsleader.co.za/tonymckeever/2008/11/01/the-end-of-the-bok-is-nigh-or-is-this-boknaai-as-we-know-it/#comment-5310</link>
		<author>owen</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 02:08:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sportsleader.co.za/tonymckeever/2008/11/01/the-end-of-the-bok-is-nigh-or-is-this-boknaai-as-we-know-it/#comment-5310</guid>
		<description>Tony, has anyone told our minister of sport and Hoskins that the springbok is part of our national symbols endorsed I presume by the ANC?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tony, has anyone told our minister of sport and Hoskins that the springbok is part of our national symbols endorsed I presume by the ANC?
<p align="right"><a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://sportsleader.co.za/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=5310', 400, 400)">(Report abuse)</a></p>
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		<title>By: Tony McKeever</title>
		<link>http://www.sportsleader.co.za/tonymckeever/2008/11/01/the-end-of-the-bok-is-nigh-or-is-this-boknaai-as-we-know-it/#comment-5287</link>
		<author>Tony McKeever</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 09:28:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sportsleader.co.za/tonymckeever/2008/11/01/the-end-of-the-bok-is-nigh-or-is-this-boknaai-as-we-know-it/#comment-5287</guid>
		<description>Mandrake - fast forward to the 8 November - what a day for international rugby viewers - a potent line up - so start making yourself useful from Sat am with your Springbok beermug!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mandrake - fast forward to the 8 November - what a day for international rugby viewers - a potent line up - so start making yourself useful from Sat am with your Springbok beermug!
<p align="right"><a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://sportsleader.co.za/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=5287', 400, 400)">(Report abuse)</a></p>
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		<title>By: Mandrake</title>
		<link>http://www.sportsleader.co.za/tonymckeever/2008/11/01/the-end-of-the-bok-is-nigh-or-is-this-boknaai-as-we-know-it/#comment-5285</link>
		<author>Mandrake</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 09:13:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sportsleader.co.za/tonymckeever/2008/11/01/the-end-of-the-bok-is-nigh-or-is-this-boknaai-as-we-know-it/#comment-5285</guid>
		<description>Just a joke i heard Tony. Canned myself because you should have seen the facial expressions of the comedian.

i just think this whole thing is a massive farce. Too much stupid last minute policies. Some might say i'm spluttering conspiracies but i think this is a whole lot of smoke-and-mirrors.

Now lemme find my Springbok beermug and go do something useful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just a joke i heard Tony. Canned myself because you should have seen the facial expressions of the comedian.</p>
<p>i just think this whole thing is a massive farce. Too much stupid last minute policies. Some might say i&#8217;m spluttering conspiracies but i think this is a whole lot of smoke-and-mirrors.</p>
<p>Now lemme find my Springbok beermug and go do something useful.
<p align="right"><a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://sportsleader.co.za/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=5285', 400, 400)">(Report abuse)</a></p>
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		<title>By: Tony McKeever</title>
		<link>http://www.sportsleader.co.za/tonymckeever/2008/11/01/the-end-of-the-bok-is-nigh-or-is-this-boknaai-as-we-know-it/#comment-5261</link>
		<author>Tony McKeever</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 20:30:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sportsleader.co.za/tonymckeever/2008/11/01/the-end-of-the-bok-is-nigh-or-is-this-boknaai-as-we-know-it/#comment-5261</guid>
		<description>thevoice - next week Russian Roulette with a full chamber.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thevoice - next week Russian Roulette with a full chamber.
<p align="right"><a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://sportsleader.co.za/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=5261', 400, 400)">(Report abuse)</a></p>
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		<title>By: thevoice</title>
		<link>http://www.sportsleader.co.za/tonymckeever/2008/11/01/the-end-of-the-bok-is-nigh-or-is-this-boknaai-as-we-know-it/#comment-5253</link>
		<author>thevoice</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 16:26:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sportsleader.co.za/tonymckeever/2008/11/01/the-end-of-the-bok-is-nigh-or-is-this-boknaai-as-we-know-it/#comment-5253</guid>
		<description>Hear, hear... a mad country, but a lovable one, none-the-less ! Nice homework Tony ! ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hear, hear&#8230; a mad country, but a lovable one, none-the-less ! Nice homework Tony ! <img src='http://sportsleader.co.za/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />
<p align="right"><a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://sportsleader.co.za/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=5253', 400, 400)">(Report abuse)</a></p>
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		<title>By: Tony McKeever</title>
		<link>http://www.sportsleader.co.za/tonymckeever/2008/11/01/the-end-of-the-bok-is-nigh-or-is-this-boknaai-as-we-know-it/#comment-5245</link>
		<author>Tony McKeever</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 14:24:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sportsleader.co.za/tonymckeever/2008/11/01/the-end-of-the-bok-is-nigh-or-is-this-boknaai-as-we-know-it/#comment-5245</guid>
		<description>Mandrake - keep a cool head like your namesake.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mandrake - keep a cool head like your namesake.
<p align="right"><a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://sportsleader.co.za/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=5245', 400, 400)">(Report abuse)</a></p>
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		<title>By: Mandrake</title>
		<link>http://www.sportsleader.co.za/tonymckeever/2008/11/01/the-end-of-the-bok-is-nigh-or-is-this-boknaai-as-we-know-it/#comment-5241</link>
		<author>Mandrake</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 12:15:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sportsleader.co.za/tonymckeever/2008/11/01/the-end-of-the-bok-is-nigh-or-is-this-boknaai-as-we-know-it/#comment-5241</guid>
		<description>Hmmm, what would another replacement

A Rhino!!! 

shit no, because we'd have to vote on the Black Rhino or White Rhino. And then the Coloured Rhino would feel left out...and the chinese. and the indian

This country is insane, but i love it anyway</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmm, what would another replacement</p>
<p>A Rhino!!! </p>
<p>shit no, because we&#8217;d have to vote on the Black Rhino or White Rhino. And then the Coloured Rhino would feel left out&#8230;and the chinese. and the indian</p>
<p>This country is insane, but i love it anyway
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