Tony

I share your point of views.

Something is amiss in this Bok-trop.
Maybe it is time for culling ‘old’ stock.

Then again I have a nagging feeling all is not well - in the Bok-tribe.
And that is showing on the playing field as well.

But, yes - it seems that with heads-up, beautiful, expansive, total, running rugby - the Bokke lost their killer-instinct as well

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On the ‘fatal distraction’

O boy, how do I long again to the days of hearing the National Anthem sung by the crowd only
and
with the mic moving slowly past the players and hearing their passion - off pitch and coarse.
Real singing as it should be done before going out to do battle for your Nation.

This pansy pretty singing is disgusting!!!

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Just once - SuperSport should run the National Anthem up on the giant screen in phonetic type so that 60,000 people can look to the screen and use it as their song sheet, to sing with one voice and spur the Boks on to a win of overwhelming authority.

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Brand, what killer instinct? Smothering teams and grinding out wins is not a killer instinct.

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I have to agree re the National Anthem, we should be singing a much more robust version of it, one with some rhythm and gusto, not a slow languid trek through the various bits….

Think back to 95 and the Soweto choir belting it out…still gives me shivers.

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Siyabonga,
to my mind the Bokke are playing with a ‘wait-for’ and not a ‘get-in’ mindset.

And that applies to nearly all facets of play.
It is as if they are - tentative . . . waiting for the ball to come TO them - so they can then play rugby.

I want the players to get-stuck-into the action.

Burger being the exception - even Bismark who should revel in close combat is waiting on the wings toooooo much.

Get the seagull forwards out of the team or back into the action - into the killing zone - not hanging around like support staff.

That is the killer instinct - missing in action.

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Really Tony, how on earth can you not lay at least 50% of the blame at the coach’s feet? I know you and Peter go way back but that is truly blatantly biased and one-eyed.

We really look like a bunch of individuals without direction or plan. There appears to be no strategy in terms of analyzing the opposition, gaining territory or retaining possession.

If you knew anything about test match rugby you would know that 50-50 passes are not on. That is Super 14 stuff! Are you saying Earl Rose is the right guy to take on Dan Carter? Come on. Do you honestly believe, OBJECTIVELY, that players like Juan Smith, Fourie du Preez and Victor Matfield become bad in a season? And it has nothing to do with the coaching? Come on.

I have always backed Peter de Villiers because you can hear that he has a great rugby brain and knowledge, but his understanding of test match rugby and the ELV’s are seriously misguided. The blame is further extended to Muir and Gold. Look how the Super14 Sharks performed worse this year because they regressed from the basics.

Looking good at Currie Cup is way different to test match stuff and any person with half a rugby brain would know this.

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Siyabonga

Sometimes smothering teams is the perfect killer instinct.

The All Blacks ground us out for 65min at Newlands which allowed them to make the telling blows in the last 15min. And they had the killer instinct.

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MIDDLES - Afternoon! Dan Carter is not playing this Saturday, but Matt Giteau.
I think Peter deV is too soft on the players. His confidence in the famous RWC ou manne is misplaced and half of them have failed themselves, not Peter.

Juan Smith, Victor Matfield, Fourie du Preez and Butch James are half the players they were a year ago. So now they should be gracefully allowed to get back up to form, not embarrass themselves.

I am delighted that you recognise that these 50-50 passes you speak of, are not on. When Butch James in an opening kick of the test match kicks it directly out, you know it is going to be a bad day. When he misses tackles and his kicks don’t find touch, you know it is going to be an even worse day.

Then Matfield only elects to throw to himself, missing 3 line outs. Juan Smith is robbed of the ball, is slow to the breakdown and Fourie takes 2 steps to pass to James who runs sideways, you know you are going to get thumped. That is what happened.

So Middles please tell me how Peter, who is not on the field, can be responsible for splilled balls, missed kicks, shocking lineouts, turnover balls, missed tackles and forward passes? These are supposed to be experienced players AND THEY ARE PLAYING BADLY.

A good coach would drop them to recover their form, in the same way Deans dropped Sharpe and left him behind. Only now he has had to recall him to the bench because of the Vickerman injury.

Cobus Grobbelaar is a superb talent and the best loose forward in Currie Cup playing against other RWC players and out performing them, so that argument holds no water.

Earl Rose was part of the Springbok squad and he is a play maker and was responsible for drilling the Bulls at Loftus time and again, also against well known RWC players. You do not see that from James.

The Springboks on field response to the ELV’s is too slow. Why else is the Beast playing wing? He is caught out of position and Fourie du Preez can’t get to the ball fast enough for a quick tap because he is too slow.

These are players vulnerabilities and Peter should replace them as he has the talent at this disposal. Call up Rose and Grobbelaar and don’t just beat the Wallabies at Ellis Park - blow 40 points past them for the points the Boks did not score in Perth or Newlands.

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Howzit Tony

I know we are facing Giteau this weekend but I was just making a point in respect of the quality bracket in which you wish to classify Rose. I don’t even think they are comparable.

Why do you think we are now getting the reputation of the Bumbleboks? Why would world class players suddenly look like bumbling idiots?

You are making the same mistake as coaches like Viljoen and Straueli made. The moment the performance dips you say change the players. That sometimes can actually throw a team ten steps back. We do not need to rebuild Rome, we merely need to line it with gold.

I cannot believe that you would not see the connection between the dip in form of the mentioned players and the acquisition of a new coach. It is obviously not a coincidence?

I mean saying Du Preez is too slow is really scraping the barrel, I acknowledge that the experienced boks have made uncharacteristic costly mistakes but that is because they are not playing as a team and for the team.

When Jake started he told the team that they will win the World Cup. In that time they also started focusing on the British Lions tour. That was a team goal and that motivated the players to believe in themselves and the coach.

Since Peter started we have heard nothing about the next World Cup, the British Lions or even winning the tri-nations. All we have heard is that our playing style must change. And players must think for themselves. What is motivating them at the moment? What is their goals? As a team? What is the coach doing to bring them together? Like a coach should do? And saying that playing for the boks is a great enough aim is nonsense. A team must have a desire to win and with the latest results it is turning more into a fear of losing.

I am not saying sack the coach because he deserves some more time. All I am saying is don’t fix what ain’t broke. Just like Eddie Jones phased in better backline play without making complete changes, so should Peter phase in a more expansive playing style(without neglecting the basics!).

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MIDDLES - The rugby talent that Peter de Villiers has at his disposal is phenomenal. There is nothing like it anywhere in the world - anywhere.

So when a player is off form, not for a single match, but three, over a period of 240 minutes, then you have to concede that the mistake is that they are left on the field for too long.

One starts off by replacing the player off the bench, if that fails to remedy the problem, the player is replaced with an equal or better form player.

Peter’s fault is that he has indulged these experienced players average performance. He gave them the first shot and he is right in part that they are played out and flat. But that requires a solution not an observation.

We agree that there is a dip in form. This has nothing to do with Peter, it is an unfortunate coincidence.

Dr. Tim Noakes has been saying for the last 3 years that these elite players cannot deliver results playing week in and week out with no proper rest for the body to recover. He even warned Jake White and SA Rugby on this.

The Kiwis know this as do the Aussies now, which is why 8 brand new uncapped Aussies at 5:30 on Saturday were able to celebrate a win. And this from a country with fewer clubs than Western Province.

Call it a rotation of form players then, but rotate form players into the Springbok side.

I will get teh stats of the amount of minutes these players that are now out of form have played and post them here as there is a direct correlation of too much game time, to lack of form.

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Interesting one Tony.
I don’t really agree with you in some of the points you have raised, but it must be said, although I was disappointed with the Boks, the furry of comments that followed was not merited.
But when the team disappoints, we have a right to be angry, but there is a line….and it looked blurry.

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If you check the records you will see that when Fourie du Preez has played this season for the Bulls they have lost. He has become slow and cumbersome and if the ball doesn’t arrive perfectly at his feet he steps back.

Butch James dives spectacularly at his opponents, misses them, leaving a gap a mile wide. He has yet to put in a decent, low tackle this year. Juan Smith has forgotten how to pass a rugby ball. Check a video of any of the matches and you’ll see he dies with the ball every single time - and allows the opponents to scramble it away.

Jantjies is a third-rate, third league player and Nokwe wouldn’t get into a Pretoria Carlton league side.

As for Peter De Villiers, he can hardly make himself understood when he talks (either English or Afrikaans) so how does he communicte with the players.

Two things: If it aint broke, don’t fix it!
De Villiers was given a Rolls royce and has turned it into a second hand Volkswagen Beetle.

Get rid of him and the dead wood.

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PLAYER STATS - Number of Minutes
S14 Total # of Minutes in ‘07
Smith,Juan 877 1079
Du Preez Fourie 1038 1038
James, Butch 970 1210
Matfield, Vic 1129 1369

This is an enormous amount of playing time in 2007 alone - now add S14 in 2008, the games Matfield played in France and the Test Matches to this and you have a potential cataclysmic player meltdown that we are experiencing with these losses.

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Unfortunate coincidence? Tony, we looked bad in the second game against Wales because of the new style and it has just deteriorated to a point where no player looks like he knows what he is doing.

I think we differ on our philosophies of player management.

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MIDDLES - Is there anywhere that you see any encouraging signs of play? This is certainly not a “new style” of play.

You probably watch the high school games and see that this style is ingrained from 15 years and up.

What is missing is response time on the field from the players. The forwards and the half backs are slow, whereas the timing to the ball and ball extraction & delivery from the ruck and maul from the McCaw and Elsom led loose forwards is vital seconds faster than the Springboks.

Who is to blame here?

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Were those players seconds faster last year? No, because our players were told not to hang back in the backline but to get stuck in the ruck.

A guy like Spies is the quickest backrow player playing but instead of getting to the breakdown first he is instructed to hang back for the recycled ball. This leaves the ball carrying forward isolated. Leave the 2nd or 3rd phase ball for habana and the rest.

Must players adapt to a coach’s vision or must the coach adapt to the players strengths?

Peter said we have lost the last two games because of the bounce of the ball but the game he is trying to play is dependent on the bounce of the ball.

Everyone of the 22 players have a different manner in which they play the game and it is the coaches job to bring that together in synergy. Not to tell every player to go out there and play as they see fit. There is just no way that can work.

Look how Real Madrid did when they had the best players in the world but not coached according to their strengths.

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MIDDLES - The obvious answer is that the players must adapt to the Coaches vision (style of play), who in turn creates that vision (style of play) around his experienced playmakers.

It is a massive leap to suggest that Peter de Villiers says there is the ball, here are the 22, there are the AB’s and Wobblies, go play.

What Deans has done is plot a good strategic anti-dote to the Springboks (in defence) and maximising the ELV’s (in attack). That worked twice so expect a much more electric Bok performance on Saturday.

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It is refreshing to see some logical appreciation for our situation.

Agree with the general sentiment of the article.

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Only one problem - Kobus & Earl are Lions players, and we know we can NEVER have Lions players in a Bok squad. Unless they defect, of course…

*Proudly displaying a Transvaal/Lions sticker on my car since I got my driver’s licence - ah, the good old days of 1993*

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GERRY - the Lions are not there yet - but these two have been stalwarts for the team and are at the top of their game. They need to be recognised with selection of their performances.

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Tony

Snor has chosen to be the sole selector… is he that much of an ignoramus that he is not aware of Tim’s comments last year… does he not realise how much some of the Bok’s have been overplayed…

That my friend you can only pass onto PDV.

What’s more worrying than that though is the fact he has not got the cojones to get Watson, Spies, Bekker, Matfield and Beast out of the backline… constantly disrupting ball meant for our speedster.

As for the breakdown and tactical kicking, why does he not have a kicking coach… how many times does he have the learn the Bok’s breakdown follies?

It’s one from five and we are facing more history books being rewritten and he still has taken nothing from the lessons he’s been learning at the top realm of the game.

Is this still going to be the case at the end of year… I hope not!

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minginWobbly - Nice try - I have news for you - the senior player are picking the team. I agree with Tim’s comments and deV has the stats of how many minutes each chap has played.

Now here is the problem: Gold & Muir are conspicuous by their deafening silence. They are the forward and backline coaches. What are they chopped liver? They must perform or ship out.

In my view Peter needs to have an Advisory Board comprising all the six Super 14 coaches and soe external advisors both local and foreign so that he remains current with the game.

Things are moving so fast that Peter hardly has chance to strategize.

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