Comments on: What went wrong for the Boks

By: Rolf

Rolf — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 10:45:25 +0000

i am afraid, these boks have not only reached, but allready left their peak.
Let us see what they do against Ireland now.
But my gut feeling is, that not only this very long (and successfull) season is taking its toll, but also the key players age.
A quite radical rehaul needs to be done during the next 1,5 years, if the RWC is a goal at all.
NZ and Aus are way ahead - they are rebuilding, which is one reason, the boks were so dominant in this yeasr Trinations.

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By: Steve

Steve — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 09:32:16 +0000

No worries, I actually agree, in general I think it was a bad strategy more than anything else… Arriving in France less than two days before didn´t help their case and in general most of the guys had a crap game, ur right some of the players cant use fatigue as their point… Fatigue was only one of the factors…

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By: Banana

Banana — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 09:02:07 +0000

Steve, I am being a little pig headed in my defense that fatigue should not be an excuse for the poor performance…as there were many other reasons why lost against the French. To be honest I am not a fan of this end of year tour - tired South versus early season North.
However, many of the mainline boks had good rest periods due to injury… Bakkies, (banned too LOL) Fourie, Adi, Victor and a few others all rested at some point, while guys like Kanko, Jacque Fourie, and Morne Steyn, Kirchner, and JP Pieterson one would harly think they are that tired.
I do take the fatigue point, but am not that keen when I hear thats is the reson for last weekend performance…there were many other factors, scrummaging for one, two chaps in the bin etc. Mentally, we werent up for it…so if you talk about mental fatigue, I could see a point.
Apologies for coming across as a brick wall.

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By: Steve

Steve — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 07:42:21 +0000

Banana we´re not the only ones saying it - all the pros agree… Read Nick mallets comments on keo.co.za today - Better rest management is vital, surely this was evident on Friday night - the boys look tired, its not rocket science.

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By: nic

nic — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 22:02:52 +0000

A recurring complaint in the Southern Hemisphere is that the touring Northern Hemisphere sides send under strength teams, causing poor gate takings. NZ even took the issue up at government level and threatened to boycott end of year tours. Why do think the NH does this? They like losing?

Resting players in the Lions tour was not the right decision. The team was building momentum and fatigue was not a factor. Sending in a rookie fullback with two rookie wings was a terrible idea. Although Kirchener has all the makings of a great player, when he inevitably made a mistake, instead of having JP and Habana to back him up, he had two rookies floundering with him. You do not blood 10 rookies at the same time. There are no combinations, no experience in playing styles and little cohesion.

What is your alternative Banana? The Boks and coaching staff turned to custard in three short months? NZ isn’t actually that good? Our playing style is too one-dimensional? Rotating players is something that the current Bok Management have not done well, but is it really a good idea? NZ might not think it is after their last fiasco. No teams have played as much rugby in a season as the current crop have. If you can’t understand how this might lead to fatigue then I don’t know.

Kankowski has had several shots at the Bok jersey and has failed every time. He doesn’t have BMT, or he is being used in the wrong role. Nothing to do with fatigue.

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By: Banana

Banana — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 15:03:20 +0000

Steve not sure if you watch rugby, but we already do rest kep players in the Super 14? Come chap keep up - the better performing franchises have been rotating players for a few seasons now!

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By: Steve

Steve — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 11:07:07 +0000

banana - Are you kidding, Jacobs was one of the only guys who actually had a good game… Du preez on the other hand had a rare shocker…Why is the midweek team playing badly because they have never played together before, even Saracens coach Brendan venter said it, ´they play like a barbarians side´ a good team in theory but without unity…. Bonga in completely right to suggest that there needs to be better management of the players amount of game time. The guys play almost every week from February to the end of November - Then start training again in Mid December for the new season… Of course they are going to be playing badly in their last few matches… Bongas point of them missing the some super 14 matches and coming off the bench for the easier incoming tours makes a lot of sense. If we want them to peak in the big games then we need to rest them in the smaller ones.

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By: Banana

Banana — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 07:40:49 +0000

The excuse of fitness and fatigue in a test match doesnt cut it for me, are you saying That Kankowski was tired? along with Morne Steyn?…How do you explain our best player for two seasons Fourie Du Preez putting in good performance on a consistent level, Friday night included? Surely if he is up for it the resat should follow?

Nic you have a short memory…PdV brought ‘tired’ players off after 50 odd minutes in the first test against the Lions and it nearly backfired…He then rested the big guns in the third test and we were humbled…by English and Welshmen - so yes Bonga…they are a comparison, Ireland Wales and England are never easy to beat at home…just see our record in England in recent years, and Ireland…

The scrums are a joke thanks in no small measure to Gary Gold who was pathetic for the Province pack before he joined the Boks…I big reason why we were so shoody against the French is because if the pack is under pressure the quality of ball suffers as a result…it has nothing to do with fatigue.

Whether against Wales, Ireland, or England, the point is that even a below par New Zealand and Australia still do the business overseas, whether it be an A team, or B team. Why?

How do you explain the dirt trackers abysmal performances Bonga? Fatigue I suppose aswell after the rigours of the Currie Cup…as many of those players only palyed in our domestic competition?

Basically the solution is to scrap the end of the year tour becuse our core players are tired and the aside from the match 22, the rest are average and would lose every year come November because the bulk of the A team are at home having an early Christmas.
You are calling for players to be rested at key intervals during the super 14, and Tri Nationas, but if that happened we would not compete, would not make play-offs, people wouldnt turn up to watch games and the end product would suffer, then the players could sit at home and look at the empty trophy cupboard!

Adi Jacobs silenced his critics….ha ha laughable!

I smoke a pipe Bonga, perhaps you can join me…

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By: Bonga Ntshingila

Bonga Ntshingila — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 11:37:01 +0000

@Lunga,

Ryan Giggs benefitted in no small way from Wales being so useless in international football that all his summers have been free. he gets enough rest.

Ditto Paul Scholes since his retirement.

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By: Adam Wakefield

Adam Wakefield — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 11:15:50 +0000

Some interesting points made. I reckon Siyabonga is spot on when it comes to fitness. I disagree with Lunga since Tim Noakes is Tim Noakes for a reason. He is no crack-pot, and is it little wonder we entered the 2007 WC with a fully fit squad after resting our main players for the 2006 End of year tour? Jake White listened to Noakes, and SA demonstrated during the WC they were the fittest team there, in no small part thanks to Noakes.

Adi had a poor game, so I think Wynand should get a go against Italy to show us what he can do.

Andries Bekker is indeed looking good for the future, which bodes well for Vic and Bakkies.

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