As four European clubs line up to take part in the Amsterdam Tournament from July 24 to 26, you will notice that it has lost the magic it once possessed. Big giants of European football (Manchester United, Arsenal, Internazionale, Liverpool, Porto) dreamt of playing in this prestigious tournament at the Amsterdam Arena in the Netherlands, one of the most celebrated stadiums in the world. They would use this famous tournament to fine tune their teams for the upcoming European and domestic season but not any more, especially if you look at this year’s line-up.
The line-up for the 2009 Amsterdam Tournament is Ajax Amsterdam, Atletico Madrid, Sunderland FC (Yep! That very same Sunderland that was fighting to stay in the Premier League last season) and Benfica. If you look at this line-up you will see that it’s lost its previous pulling power and really starting to fade as a prestigious tournament. The four teams contesting don’t have the attractiveness that has always boosted Amsterdam’s tourism business in July and August when the tournament is played. Sunderland finished 16th in the Premier League last season, just a mere two points above the relegation zone. Atletico Madrid finished fourth in the Spanish La Liga, Benfica finished 3rd in the Portuguese Liga and Ajax a very disappointing 3rd in the Dutch league.
The are a myriad of reasons but I will mention just a few. Ajax Amsterdam are no longer the force they used to be in the 90s and at the beginning of the century. Back then the famed Ajax Youth Academy churned out quality players at a high rate and teams would use it as a way to test their teams against one of the best, youthful teams in the world and perhaps also scout for players to recruit. Since Steven Pienaar, Rafael van der Vaart, Zlatan Ibrahimovic and a host of other quality players left for greener pastures, they have never been the same or produced quality players. More controversy followed in August 2006 when Wayne Rooney and Paul Scholes were sent off in the game against Porto. They were punished with a three-match ban by the English FA following a report from their Dutch counterparts. Manchester United, Rooney, Scholes and their attorneys wrote letters of protest to the FA, citing the lack of punishment to players sent off in pre-season friendlies. But the FA made the decision stick nonetheless. Sir Alex Ferguson vowed he will never take his troops to the Netherlands again. The tournament never recovered from this and since then hasn’t been the same.
Teams are also getting lucrative offers to play elsewhere. Manchester City are coming to South Africa while Internaziole, Chelsea and other big clubs have big money offers to play their pre-season friendlies in the US. Manchester United are destined for Asia where they have a huge following. A while back it used to be the only pre-season tournament in Europe but now there is the Emirates Cup, Wembley Cup and Russian Railways Cup which have more financial reward than the Amsterdam Tournament. With Ajax having a new coach who will bring in his own players and a different mentality, let’s hope the 2010 Amsterdam Tournament will be more prestigious than ever with the big guns competing once again.
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140 Responses to “The fall of the prestigious Amsterdam Tournament”
i agree sunderland are not the big pull that the amsterdam tournament once had but your reference to boosting local tourism, it is reported we are taking 4500 fans over, i bet thats 10 times more than some so called bigger teams have taken before!
The so called bigger teams are not interested now then due to money then…well why dont we stop these tournaments all together…us so called smaller clubs dont deserve a spot of the limelight after all do we…im just one of the 6000 fans going(yes 6000)..so ill just go to amsterdam looking at the tulips instead..and watch man utd or chelsea play in the falkland isles..in which you would prefer….we all love football don t we…
We do all love football. Man Utd whenever they played at the Amsterdam Tournament they took a lot of supporters, anyway, they always have big support wherever they go. Even locals who support lets say for instance PSV would go to the Stadium to support one of the bigger clubs and see some of their icons in action.
We cant stop this tournaments because they are always a measuring stick how the team will gel in the new season. Pre-season tournaments are always good and i always rated the Amsterdam tournament above all else.
I agree that Sunderland isn’t a big team, but At. and Benfica? What’s the problem? aren’t it big teams? you’re talking about the 3rd Spanish team and the largest Portuguese team! Do you base your view only in the last 3/4 seasons results??! From my point of view not a goog comment this time.
Benfica are no longer the force they used to be, I agree that they used to be one of the best but not anymore. My point is that it doesnt recruit the champions like it used, it recruit the has beens and the 3rd best or 4th best team looking at the previous season’s statistics.
Fair enough….the likes of man utd are not in this tournament for whatever reason..maybe a bigger TV puller they would have been..but that is why football is football..are you saying that the f.a cup is not the same because man utd may not have been in the final…so that would not be prestigious…does that mean you would only watch the final if man utd were in the final…and if they were not then the f.a cup is tarnished…remember this is a friendly after all we are talking about and i think its great that all 20 teams in the prem maybe were considered for this tournament…and this year Sunderland have got the chance for a change..maybe you disagree and think man utd should be involved in everything..and yeah you are knocking this tournament because the bigger teams are not in it…but do you not think it would be a bore if it was the same teams in it every year…even with your man utd rose tinted glasses on..why dont we have a man utd tournament then…with man utd against man utd….not that i have anything against man utd….they did pip that black and white team to the premiership in 1995…my greatest respect goes to man utd for that….
[…] Amsterdam Tournament will be more prestigious than ever with the big guns competing once again. Sports Leader Joseph Misika The fall of the prestigious Amsterdam Tournament […]
The point of this article is not that Man Utd are not playing in this tournament but its that, the lineup this year is not as impressive as it was last year or the year before that. Last year there was Arsenal, Internaziole, Sevilla and in 2007 - Arsenal, Lazio and Atletico Madrid.
If your considerations and opinion regard the economical boost to local tourism you shouldn´t be worried, you have an english team which always provides large supporter presence and Benfica is not simply the largest portuguese team. They were starting their pre-season of at Geneve and they sold out the stadium for practice, that’s something only Barcelona, Real Madrid, AC Milan and Man Utd can do.
Regarding the lineup and the competitive value of the tournament, and not taking in consideration other teams availability, i must say that this years At. Madrid is far better than the one from 2007 and probably better even than last year’s Sevilla. If you put Arsenal against Sunderland, of course Arsenal comes out best but it’s still an english input to the lineup. Benfica against the italians is a half full- half empty situation, against Inter they come out losing but against Lazio they come out winning.
Well the 2 teams which you think have changed how prestigious this tournament is…benfica and sunderland would no doubt beg to differ with your opinion…specially when you consider benfica to be near on the best supported team in portugal and sunderland had the 4th highest attendance in the premiership…who then would you then class can put some prestige into this tournament for next season then..
Well Joe, “big guns” and you wrote about Man.City??!!
I can only agree with Sunderland…
What about Arsenal??! under your criteria was a poor top pick for 2007 tournament. is that true?
Based on what?
I agree that Ajax and SLBenfica are no longer the force they used to be (namely SLBenfica).
But i remember teams like Lazio or Galatasaray in Amsterdam in the past…was that also a sign of a poor tournament?
See now this is the reason why the glory suporters are always out and about. This whole artical is based on keeping the “big teams” (as you put it) as the “big teams” which means that no other teams will get the chance to ever win other leagues or do well. If you look at Sunderlnds history and see the trophies that they have won, and compare them to some other teams then you will see why Ajax would want them to play, but the fact is, all these modern day “fans” believe that because a team is funded well that they’re a huge team, for example: Manchester United, they’re now seen as bigger than Liverpool, but have achieved pretty much the same awards, and back a few years ago when the Chelsea buzz was going on everyone though that they were the biggest and best team in the world, but their financial backing went and they were no longer classed as amazing. Side step to the champions league final and see that Barcalona won over Manchester United, then everyone jumped on the Barca’ band wagon and now the Real Madrid buzz because of their high spending and I also put reference to your “Manchester City” comment about them also being a big club, this just proves my “got money? Then your a big club!” Theory.
This blog is based on the views of a person that views money as a place for success. Other teams CAN play well such as Sunderland and Fulham but because they haven’t got a huge backing and don’t spend 30+ Million on players then they’re not classed as a “big team” which means people like the author if this blog believes they shouldn’t have a chance.
So the Amsterdam Tournament has never been the same since the Manchester United incident? Aren’t you a Man Utd fan - so you’re bound to say that.
You say the Emirates and Wembley tournaments offer bigger financial rewards. Are you privvy to these figures? Have you looked at the lineups?
Arsenal (hosts), Rangers, PSG (perennial Ligue 1 strugglers) & Atletico Madrid (also at the Amsterdam). Across town we have Tottenham (not exactly a European superpower) Barcelona, Celtic and Al Ahly (?????).
Of those I would dare to argue that Sunderland would rival the fan base of both the Scottish clubs, Atletico, Tottenham and PSG. Have no idea why Al Ahly are there at all.
So for all the supposed financial rewards - still not blockbuster lineups are they?
@Chris - The Manchester United incident surely shaped it for the future. Sir Alex Ferguson was always looking forward to taking his team to Amsterdam but not anymore since that incident and other teams also started seeing it as problematic since then that if one of their players get sent off in that pre-season friendly then it carries over to the competitive domestic league. IF you are to put those infront of TV broadcasters, they might choose the Wembley or Emirates Cup over the Amsterdam tournament. That also counts especially in this tough financial times.
@Danny - Its not a matter of financial power but a matter of Global appeal. If you look at it better you might find that Porto have more global appeal than Benfica but both teams are from Portugal and they both have to sell players season in - season out to survive. IF sunderland/Fulham were to come to say for instance South Africa, will they get the same backing as lets Arsenal would!? I dont think so, its not a matter of how many supporters you have in the domestic league. I dont base this blog on financial power of a club but you did.
You’re wrong about two things, but I’ll just let you wait and see about Porto’s supposed “global appeal”. Find out how many Benfica supporters go to the matches, and then you’ll see what I mean. Even in Portugal, Porto can barely muster any fans out of their city, much less in Amsterdam. Benfica, on the other hand, is known to sell out small stadiums across Europe. You may remember that, when we played Lille, in the Champions League Group Phase, (Man Utd was in our group) and Lille, had to switch to another stadium to get a better revenue(we played at PSG’s stadium, I thinks). It was full, and it was said there were more Benfica supporters than Lille’s. And that much was clear just from the chants heard troughout the game. We may not be champions, but we are a much larger club than Porto, and you would do well to listen to Sir Alex about that.
PS: Just remembered. You might want to check the Guiness Book of Records about the club with the biggest associated fan base.
@Rodgrigo - Give me a link about that. Remember Porto are in the Champions League Season In - Season Out, they play against the best in Europe and even beat some of the best in Europe, they always get support whenever we are watching champions league matches in SA, so thats from what i have seen.
Ok, I didn’t quite get if you wanted the link for the Guiness, or for the Lille game, so I’ve got links for both: http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/gwrday/portugal_teameffort.aspx http://www.geocities.com/uefa_championslge/0506.htm http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?s=80ca8838a23f80882dc5d6daee127cb1&p=37659664&postcount=470 http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-199680-p-14.html
The first link, is for the Guiness World Records site.
The second one, has all the results and attendances in all of the Champions League games that year. If you check out the games, you will notice that the attendance for Lille-Benfica game, is the highest of the group D, and the second highest of all the games in the Group Phase. And the Final, in the same stadium, only show a couple thousand more people, obviously because the stadium’s capacity is around 80000. Even Lille-Man Utd had a more feeble attendance than our game. So I think it shows a little of our wide fan base.
The third link shows a Lille fan talking about the game, and the fourth one is a forum, spoken in English were there are links to some news in portuguese, but one of the guys wrote in English pretty much what that particular article says. It is the twelfth comment, and it is written by the user Frank Cunha.
It isn’t irrefutable evidence, but it definitely suggest a good turnout. And being a Benfica supporter, I remember a lot of cases of good turnouts in remote places.
About Porto, I didn’t talk about who wins more, and who is in the champions league. Like I said, they are the champions, no doubt about it. But the support they get in CL games, is mostly because of their Firm, which has direct financial support from the club, and packs big numbers. And a lot of fans go with the firm, even if they are not part of it, they still can get the financial support. But they barely get any fans from anywhere else other than their city. But you should think about one thing. We haven’t won the league in four years. And we still get the highest attendances, and viewers out of all the portuguese clubs, in every competition. How many people do you think we can get in a stadium if we start winning again? For now, they may be winning, but we still get the larger publicity deals, we get more people into any stadium and we’ve been considered a top brand for the last three years in our country. All of that has mainly one reason: we have a huge support from our fan base. So, when you talk about the tourism, you can bet Benfica will boost it, alright. Benfica is one of the top choices when having that goal in mind.
Oh, and you may want to re-think why it was that Sir Alex was so pissed about poor refereing when playing against Porto…
I love football, but I don’t support a major club in Portugal, I have my home town team, Olhanense, and that’s it.
But what I would like to say, and make a point, is about what’s really happening in the Portuguese Football.
40 years ago, Benfica was in fact the biggest team in Portugal, due to the constant support os a fascist regime led by Oliveira Salazar, who ruled Portugal for over 60 years. Benfica, being the biggest club in the Portuguese capital -Lisbon- got all the support from a political centralist regime, that would engage in any form to provide Benfica with all the best infrastructures, the best players, constant cash flow, while all the other Portuuese clubs were forgotten and put apart.
When Portugal had it’s revolution from this tiranic regime, in 1974, “freedom day” as we call it in Portugal, and the Portuguese instituted a democratic party, where all people would have equal justice of rights and opportunities and freedom, suddently Benfica began to drop. On the other hand, FC Porto began to rise. It’s incredible that Benfica has fallen so much since they lost the political regime support, and Porto, once overruled by a centralist force that wouldn’t allow them to grow, began to grow and grow and grow till this day!
So, everybody in Portugal has in mind that Benfica was always the regime club and Porto fought and grew by own merit, and never stopped growing, up to a point that today is way ahead of any other Portuguese club.
It is romantic to say that Benfica nowadays are still the biggest club in Portugal. No, not any more. That was 40 years ago, not now.
All the prestige they achieved, has faded with the years, and nowadays they can’t ever get a 2nd or 3rd place in the Portuguese league table, and in europe they usualy lose against any normal side from the middle of the table from countries such as Uckraine, Romania, Bulgaria or Switzerland.
Just last year they took a beating from a greek side by 5-0! That’s bad and that shows in which level Benfica is roght now.
Portuguese footbaal fan on July 17th, 2009 at 4:58 pm
@Portuguese footbaal fan - thanks for that insight didnt know about it, knew only about Real Madrid and their Franco connection. Better tell that to Rodrigo Almeida that Benfica are no longer the best supported club in the country.
Well portuguese football fan (it really seems you aren’t). Benfica was regarded as the left-hand party club!! Their board was full anti-regime members some of them were even arrested. There is no need to lie..
Superb piece of writing. The Amsterdam Tournament is in a clearly downturn. Second rate clubs are invited evidently because they demand low participation fees.
Great article. Very well written and straight to the point. Pre-season tournaments are just like that. Sometimes they’re famous and prestigious and then all of the sudden they just collapse. Teresa Herrera Trophy is a very good example.
As for Benfica and Porto… my friend. You have just opened pandora’s box…
I’m a Porto fan so I’m kind of biased and all, but these are the facts:
- Benfica won a single championship in the past fifteen (15) years. Porto won 11.
- 3rd place four years straight. Porto won the championship in the same time span;
- Terribly humiliated in the last edition of the UEFA Cup. Porto reached the quarter finals of the CL.
- In FC Porto, the Champions League trophy actually comes around more often than the Halley’s Comet;
Now, I wouldn’t go as far as to call FC Porto an European giant. We’re not a small club either but fact of the matter is, we cannot compete with the likes of Real Madrid, Inter Milan, Man Utd, hell! even the french teams have more monetary power than we do. But we sure give them a run for their money in the Champions League and I feel very proud of our team because of that.
If, as a fan, my showcase was nothing but a glorious past and an entrance in the World Book of Records, I honestly would not feel any pride at all. Those are just moral victories that have little or no use. Football is played on the pitch and that’s where it should belong.
Yup, we suck. Is it me, or are we the first ever portuguese team to win the Amsterdam Tournament? Oh, and by the way, you should check out Steve Bruce’s comments on spending a few weeks in Portugal with Sunderland. That, and Ajax’s comments from a representative on how they had invited us twice before, but we had never managed to show up before.
Oh damn, looks like WE (Sundeland) won Athletico Madrid.. Now, Anyone want to say that they’re not a good team? No, didnt think so! And what was the score? not just one lucky goal with the pen’ BUT a second well placed shot - killed off one of the so called best teams in the torni’ so I think someone needs to take back the comments about Sunderland now ey?
Benfica has 7 champions cup finals, won 2 of them, 32 national titles, 24 portuguese cups and is the club with more paid-up members in the world -link- (guinnessworldrecords.com/gwrday/portugal_teameffort.aspx). This record was won some years ago, it now has more than 200000 paid-up members. Benfica name shouldn´t be used to talk about lack of prestigious clubs in the tournament.
Benfica might have a lot of championships but then they were favoured under a dictatorship regime. Porto will eventually catch up with them one or the other since they have dominated so much this decade.
Hi Joe.
I read the comments above , specially the one from the “Portuguese football fan” and I cannot let this pass.
This supposed football fan should be named corrupted football fan, because he forgot to tell you that in the last 20,25 years that the majority of Porto national championships were won corrupting the referees with trips to Brazil, prostitutes,etc.
They won the UEFA Cup and the Champions League with Monaco in the final but back then I admit that they had a great team and a great coach, but the final was against Monaco, which is a small team in Europe.
He also forgot to tell you that last year Porto lost 6 points in the championship because of the corruption cases without contesting the decision (so they admitted that they are corrupt) but since we are in Portugal nothing serious really happened to them only a smaller team were seriously punished (Boavista). See the examples in Italy, specially Juventus where the justice was correctly applied.
And the fact that Benfica is connected with the regime that’s only stories.Period. If so why Benfica won two European Cups and was in 7 finals (was also with help of the Salazar regime?I think not).
Please translate and read the article shown by “João on July 24th, 2009 at 7:30 pm”.
One thing else, in the Portuguese league how many Porto players are loaned to other clubs? I’ll tell you. 51 players. When they play against Porto they are injured or can’t play because of yellow cards or if they play, there’s a “magic” substitution in the 56th minute (see Porto - V.Setubal).
Another thing, if you don’t believe the Porto players are protected see this video of the Porto defender Bruno Alves:
Wow ! Joe really made the benfica fans upset ! Thanks for the article Joe. As for the Benfica fans, go back to reading A Bola and stay within your bubble. By the way Joe, Porto had the highest average attendance last season ( again ).
Jon, you should verify all your comments before accepting some idea as an unbiased “insight” (as you did for “Portuguese footbaal fan” comment).
I’ll give my “insight” (biased? probably…but you can take your own conclusions after).
SLBenfica always have been seen as the left-hand club, the one supported by the “low classes”, the “workers” and by the wide Portuguese emmigrants community (that’s the reason why FC Lille - SLBenfica had the highest attendance ever of a Champion League game in France, for instance - Stade de France 2006).
To give you one idea about the passion of the Portugueses for “their” Benfica, “Estádio da Luz” (SL Benfica stadium) was constructed only based on offers of its supporters (free work, cement, food for the workers…).
SL Benfica inaugurated its stadium in October 5th (a symbolic day for the republicanism and democracy in Portugal) what caused some angry in the fascists.
SL Benfica flags (the RED flags) were common among the opposition rallies and parades.
During the dictatorial period several SLBenfica directors were dismissed due to their opposition to the fascists.
Claerly, FC Porto is doing the work well and is clearly dominating the Portuguese soccer during the last 20 years. They deserve our congratulations!
But connect SLBenfica with fascism (common among FCPorto fans) is, above all, a provocation for those who (including grandfather) fight against the tyranny and oppression.
Portugal enter in a democratic system in 1974. After that SLBenfica went to 3 European finals and won 12 of its 31 Portuguese Leagues.SL Benfica is receing the payment for several wrong strategies taken in the 90’s. Every big team have bad times.
Regarding the sentence which says that SLBenfica is not the largest supported team in Portugal, is a “no comments” one. Jon, I suggest you a holiday tour in Portugal (you will enjoy it for sure!!!) and take your own conclusions.
P.S: SLBenfica won Amsterdam Tournament with 2 wins and 5-2 in goals.
Where did you saw that Porto had the highest average last season? O’Jogo maybe? When a club admits that is corrupt, it’s all said… When the Uefa President says that they shouldn’t be in the Champions League, it also says it all… When somehow a referee goes on vacations to Brazil and Porto pays the bill, it also says it all. Your luck it that our country sucks in terms of politics and justice…
The stats found on wikipedia show that Porto were leading with average attendaces last season and benfica was second - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_Liga#Attendance, click on that link and you will see what i am talking about.
Anywhere Guys, my article wasnt about which is the greatest team from Portugal but about The Amsterdam Tournament which used to be great about a few years back but not anymore.
Hi Joe,
Your article wasn’t about the biggest team in Portugal but since some Porto fans started to take Benfica down I, as a Benfica supporter, cannot keep my mouth shut.
The true is that Benfica fans can be more, but last season, as the one before, in Portuguese League the stadium with biggest attendence was Porto’s Dragão and not Benfica’s Luz stadium. If they are so many why that happens?
The truth is only one: in the last 25 years, Benfica only one 4 portuguese leagues and none international competition and Porto won 18 portuguese leagues and 6 international competitions (twice the european champions, twice the intercontinental cup, 1 uefa cup and 1 eurocup) so and we have fans and house fans all over Portugal, from north to south, and we more than 90.000 associated with payments on day…
It’s good to see through independent eyes the real international value of Benfica these days.
I understand the Benfica supporters are very upset. Most of them never saw Benfica win anythind at an international level and for any football fan from any other countries, Benfica means nothing.
On the other hand for any football fan F.C. Porto is one of the best European clubs. Year after year joins the Champions League and really doing interesting things (five years ago we were European and World Champions for the second time, not 48 years ago…).
It’s sad to read some of the Benfica supporters comments. They, themselves, never saw their club win anything. This year F.C. Porto won the national championship for the 4th year in a row. A Benfica fan to see his club win 4 championships has to be at least 21 years old, so, most of these supporters don’t have a clue what they’re talking about…
The Benfica was the club with the most prestige in this tournament and one of the most prestigious in the world, and see that in football practice!!! forget the goddamn Wikipedia and see if write something worth being read.
Sorry my english im Portuguese!!!!
“Benfica might have a lot of championships but then they were favoured under a dictatorship regime. Porto will eventually catch up with them one or the other since they have dominated so much this decade. ”
Well.. sorry, but this last the first time (and the last) I read any ‘article’ of yours. What you say, just because an Oporto fan posted here a blalant lie, it’s not acceptable. You’re offending 14 millions Benfica fans worldwide. Since you write articles, maybe it would have been a good idea to do some research I won’t explain you much, because I don’t think you comment worths it, but… Benfica had 8 european finals..and surprise: 3 of them in 1982/1983, 1987/88 and 1989/90. Benfica didn’t stop winning championships: 1974/75, 1975/76, 1976/77, 1980/81, 1982/83, 1983/84, 1986/87, 1988/89, 1990/91, 1993/94, 2004/05.
Benfica was always a democratic club..even in Salazar time. Oporto was the one that, suddenly, started winning EVERY year since corrupt Oporto chairman Pinto da Costa (and this was proved! not just a fan rumour, if you had done some research you’d have seen that) joined the club. Can you see any team worldwide winning like that? This is a sport, you lose, you win. Not here…but we all know why. See how many leagues Sporting (Figo, Cristiano Ronaldo, Nani, Simão Sabrosa, etc…) have won since Oporto chairman took the place…Maybe they used to win because of Salazar, too..
About the Lille-Benfica match..it was played in Stade de France…stadiu sold out, 40′000 portuguese there, breaking the record of biggest attedeance in a french european game.
Show more respect for a historical club like Benfica, and please, try to do some research before you assume other people comments as true.
I come here not to show what it is the Sport Lisbon and Benfica because simply the biggest club of the world dispenses presentations. The motive that me behind here, it is the ignorance of the corrupted ones, in other words, of the followers of Oporto.
But it still leaves me more dumbfounded is the agreement with them, since not even valid arguments they present. Of them, everything is waited, animal that is born irrational is impossible of returning rationally.
The Sport Lisbon and Benfica won what won for own merit, because it always had the only moments of immense glory with players whom never a club as Oporto would dream to have. Obviously that coming from irrational animals, they excuse that with the Salazar.
Oporto as all who interest themselves in football is known by them, it is known recently by the scandal of the corruption. The Platini itself did not want their presence in the champion league, since this competition is a place for great teams of football that they gain for own merit and not in the arbiter’s purchase or in the exchange of favors with teams adversárias. It is a club, disgusting he would say, with a president who is put of illegalities up to ás ears and whom from everything it does so that Oporto wins …. be for the correct way or for the incorrect way.
So for the author of the initial text on the tournament, for the irrational animals aka followers of the Olhanense (Oporto B) what here they comment, and for all who should be interested, respect a loaded symbol of glory, mystic and vanity.
Sport Lisbon and Benfica, yesterday, today and ALWAYS!
For all the people who support FC Porto:
A Portuguese “saying”: against facts, there are no arguments. There are obvious evidence why you win what you win. To all the others who dont know anything about Portugal, come and see with your own eyes where we live. Its not sports that matter.
Dani say’s that porto has mora attendance than benfica but he doesen’t say that they had hust more 15.000 spectator’s more than benfica last season and it’s the 4th year in a row Porto win’s the championship.
How can u explain that??? If Porto is so great and so big how can a Benfica have almost same attendance than Porto, imagine only if Benfica win 3 championships in a row, Porto wouldn’t get near Benfica’s attendance not even with a microscope.
The reason why Benfica isn’t winning anyting now it’s because the club had somo financial problems and bad presidents, Porto has a president (proved to be corrupt, not a fantasy like benfica and salazar) that is there for more than 20 years (i think) and therefore have a solid structure, that is the only thing that’s missing in Benfica.
Here is a website about attendance stats from Portuguese leage, it’s not when a club is winning that you see the suport of the fans but when he doesen’t win
Benfica fans present’s fact’s, porto fans hear’s stories and try to make them the truth.
Benfica may not win many thing’s in football in last years but has a great history, still is a big european club in europe and showed good football in the tournament
Benfica supporters are ridiculous it´s always the same history (when their team loss) they put the guilt on the referees or in corruption.
In the video you can see the President of the justice of FPF (federation Portuguese of Football, Arnaldo Marques da Silva)inaugurating a benfica´s “house” (for supporters).
It´s always the same, the justice (in football) are made by benfica´s people. The “Apito dourado” was “case closed in civil courts”, judges said “that´s ridiculous acusations” but, guess what, the football justice penalized Fc porto with minus 6 points… But guess what again, porto was champions again.
In Portugal, Fc porto have a tough job, sometimes we have 3 penalties in a game and the referee doesn´t see any… We have to play the double to win games.
Being a Porto fan it´s very difficult in Portugal… the day after Porto won the Champions league the first cover of journals where a Benfica player who scored 6 goals in the training.
Here are a few things you guys are mistaken about. I didnt say i agree that Benfica are a fascist club from the salazar regime. All i said was i didnt know about them, i only knew about Real Madrid and their Franco Connection, it doesnt meant that i agree with the commenter’s point.
One thing for sure is Porto have dominated the Portuguese league this decade, its not up for debate and they have the highest average attendance at the Dragon Stadium. Benfica might have a great history but not anymore, Porto is re-writing that history just like in England, Liverpool used to dominate the league but not anymore, the past two decades have certainly belonged to Manchester United.
So, there is no need to be angry and get out of line, Benfica are a great club with great tradition.
@MadTuga
I didn’t said that Porto has more attendence than Benfica. It was not me.Please don’t mistake me with a Porto supporter.
@Joe
In some of your comments you had admitted that Benfica had connections with the regime and our championships were won because of that connections. Do you expect from a Benfica supporter to hear this type of lies and don’t say anything?
I just want to add that it makes me laugh to read some comments of the benfica fans. They really live on the greatness of the club… 40 years ago.
And when they talk about corruption in F.C. Porto, I hope they’re not forgetting, at least F.C. Porto confimrs at an international level why we are superior at a national level.
When was the last time we saw befica do something remarcable at an international leve? 20 years ago and they didn’t even win anything.
For them it’s only corruption. It must have been Pinto da Costa along with the referees winning the champions league in 2004 and not the players…
I hope benfica fans don’t forget, as well, the case of a referee on a benfica match that pointed 3 penalties for benfica, sent off 2 players of the other team, gave 12 minutes discounts at the end, on the final round of the one season where the championship was beeing disputed between F.C. Porto and benfica.
The best comes now:
- that referee ended up working for benfica on it’s administrative services.
HOW ABOUT THAT FOR CORRUPTION?????
Here is a snippet from Eusébio’s(the greatest portuguese footballer of all time) interview in the timesonline. He says the Salazar regime bared him from moving to Juventus when he was 19, which might be a link that you are looking for.
Snippet from the timesonline:
In Eusebio’s time, Portugal was governed by the military dictatorship of Antonio Salazar, who vetoed any move abroad from Benfica.
“Juventus came for me when I was 19,” he says, with noticeable bitterness. “After the World Cup, Inter made a big offer, one which would have made me the highest-paid player in the world. And yet I was not allowed to move. Why? Salazar was not my father and he certainly was not my mother. What gave him the right? The truth was that he was my slavemaster, just as he was the slavemaster of the entire country.”
-”I didnt say i agree that Benfica are a fascist club from the salazar regime.”
Actually, you said:
“Benfica might have a lot of championships but then they were favoured under a dictatorship regime.”
Which is an abolsute lie!!!! I wonde who’s the stupid guy that let’s you write these things.. You don’t know nothing about football and you are a liar!
-”Maybe one of my next articles will have to look at Benfica’s fall from grace, how about that?”
You might want to write about how Porto began to rise.. with their connections with referees.. But it’s better not. You might say more lies.
-”What do you guys have to say about that?”
That you know nothing (again) about what a fascist regime is. Euébio eventually left Benfica.. ALL portuguese were prohibited of leaving the country. ALL!! many left the countru ileglly and only came many years later whenthe regime ended. So when you say something, try to be absolutely correct or don’t say it.
Again, I feel for the poor guy that let’s you write these things. And don’t try to show you are right. You are not.
“In Portugal, Fc porto have a tough job, sometimes we have 3 penalties in a game and the referee doesn´t see any… We have to play the double to win games.”
Give me a break… you must be kidding when you say this… The other teams drop their pants when they play against you…
“Being a Porto fan it´s very difficult in Portugal… the day after Porto won the Champions league the first cover of journals where a Benfica player who scored 6 goals in the training.”
The same happens in Spain… Marca and As is for Real Madrid and Sport and Mundo Deportivo is for Barcelona. In Portugal, O’jogo is for Porto, Record for Benfica and A Bola for Sporting. We can’t help that the news about Benfica sells. The same happens when it’s our misery, it’s explored to the max.
Just remember that when other international teams like Lazio play against Benfica your supports, Pinto da Costa’s praetorian guard, go to the airport to greet and support them. That’s some nice Portuguese people you have there…
This is the worst article I have ever read in my life. Joseph Misika please go learn football history. And stop writing in newspaper.
If you like to write, go do some grafittis.
@B - Everybody is entitled to their own view. Thats your own opinion.
Trust me my knowledge of football is very intact thats why i blog in this platform and they will be a lot of articles coming from me. The amsterdam tournament is not as prestigious as it used to or do you think it still is?
@Portuguese footbaal fan: I would like to get the facts straight on this one.
Benfica was kicked from their stadium by the state during the regime. Benfica was the first Portuguese club to have democratic elections. Estádio da Luz was built with the effort of the supporters, both man power as well as donated materials. My father watched several matches during the 60’s and tells me it was the only place where one could speak freely without being afraid of getting busted by PIDE (the Regime Police).
Benfica continued to win during the 70’s, 80’s and early 90’s, even with all the corruption. But Benfica’s demise is mostly their own fault with some very bad presidents that made equally bad choices that forced the club to go down financially and sportively.
I’m loving it ! The benfica fans are pissed because Porto is way more know these days outside Portugal than Benfica. Tough luck guys ! Quit crying and play ball !
Benfica supporters are like this… They see every match of Porto. During a game, if the ball goes out touched by a Porto player and the referee gives the throw to porto it´s because porto bought the referee.
Keep talking and make movies on youtube, we will keep playing and winning.
The sad thing is that, telling a lie many times will make it sound real… But everyone knows who´s the best in Portugal in the last 25 years has one name, and one name only, F.C. Porto.
Don´t be blind, Benfica WAS a big team in the world not today… Benfica its a good team but not good enought like Porto…We will see who´s the best team this year.
The great difference between F.C. Porto and benfica is that F.C. Porto has people manging the club that actually have a lot of knowledge in what concerns to football.
We create great players and then sell them to the top european clubs.
This way, F.C. Porto manages to keep the financial department balanced and also have hy level performances in the competitions they join.
On the other hand there’s benfica. They haven’t created a great player in years. Their politics is to get great names of international football to join them, only they don’t understand that whenever a great name comes to the portuguese football is because no top european club wants him anymore(lets remind the last great star hired by Benfica this year - SAVIOLA - Real Madrid, from where he came, gave the player the total amount of the transfer - 5.000.000 € - so that he accepted joining Benfica - how about that for a motivation?!). And then there’s the benfica chairman L.F. Vieira, a former tyres seller most known around here as the “Kadafi of the tyres”, because of his physical resemblances with Kadafi himself. What does he know about football? ZERO.
If it weren’t for the large millions of Euros the president of Angola (Benfica supporter) sends to the club year round, they’d be bancrupt for a long time now.
They don’t have any sport income. Last season were considered the 4th worse team in the Uefa Cup. Theur stadium wasn’t sold out a single time in the whole season.
In my opinion, there’s a first line of top european clubs, like Real Madrid, Barcelona, A.C. Milan, Bayern, Manchester United and Liverpool.
Then there’s a second line where I’d say F. C. Porto could be included, along with At. Madrid, Valencia, Inter Milan, Juventus, Rome, Ajax, Chelsea, Arsenal, Lyon, and few others.
Then there are many other clubs.
In what line would benfica fit? Probably on the 4th or the 5th. They haven’t beaten any spanish team in official european competitions since 1982 and this means, just for example, loosing to the great Celta de Vigo in 1999 7 to 1!!!
To complete my thoughts, I just want to say, this isn’t fiction, this is reality. Fictions is considering nowdays benfica to be something they were when they won 2 european cup in a row… 48 years ago.
I just want to correct a mistake I made.
In 1999 the match between Celt de Vigo and benfica I mentioned before, didn’t end up 7 to 1 but 7 to 0.
Sorry for the mistake…
Arthur, what are you trying to prove?
Are you an FCPorto fan or an anti-SLBenfica fan?
Arthur, I’m not Portuguese but I’m living in Portugal for several years and remember that SLBenfica went to 3 Europenan finnals (1983 1989 and 1990) and 2 semifinnals (1991 and 1994).
During this period I also saw FCPorto having terible defeats: against an amateur Wales team (Wrexham, i think), Artmedia Bratislva or a 4-0 defeat against Arsenal less than 1 year ago.
In your comments you never write about FCPorto, always against SLBenfica…is that a way of live?
I lived in the North, then Santaren (center), Faro (Algarve) and near Lisbon and the support that SLBenfica get has no comparation with other teams.
Joe, good comments from you in this blog. Unfortunately, in this case you took some comments as true without doing your own research. BAD PRINCIPLE!
Connect SLBenfica with the old fascist regime is something as saying that Adolf Hitler was a communist..
I’m not anti-benfica, in fact I really don’t care about them. What I find sad is to read the comments I read over the preponderance of F.C. Porto over the last decades. It’s always corruption. If you live in Portugal and like football, you probably agree with me and with everybody, when we say that F.C. Porto plays the best football, has the best players and is always to blame about anything like the way the league tryed to take 6 points off last season.
Since you remember the result Porto had agains Arsenal in London, you probably also remember the result in Porto and who won that champions league group…
Regarding the benfica finals you correctly mentioned, do you recall the results? Did benfica win any? And the last one, we’re speaking what, 20 years ago?
Just to correct you, in 91 benfica didn’t reach the semi-finals, because there were no semi finals. There was a group fase with 2 groups of 4 teams and benfica ended 3 with 1 win, 3 draws and 2 defeats.
LOL…Joseph, did you know anything about the corruption (proved) in portuguese football? So….how can you wrote this kind of things? Sorry but you’re not correct. Porto leads in the last 20 years, but why? The answer is in the archives of justice, records and records of phone calls made by fcporto shairman to allow “sleeping fruit” for the referees. One of them was a “visit” in fcporto shairman house in the night before an important internal game. Once more proved. And the referee’s (Carlos Calheiros & Brothers)vacations the “by mistake” were payed by fcporto? Proved.
And finaly, let me ask you a simple question. Have u any idea, the kind of persons that follow fcporto in the european games?
I bet you dont. But i tell u: 2 kinds. The first kind is drugged guys, without job, but registered as “professional supporters”…With big cars, big houses, free-pass at players area in stadium (thats the reason why they do things as tell paulo assunçao -now at at.madrid- that if he doesn’t sign a new contract he get a knew shoot….And the Co Adriaanse very light?, and more and more and more.)
And why they aren’t arrested? That the second reason….the other kind of people who follow the fcporto team, goes by club invitation….Lawyers and…..JUDGES. PROVED.
Benfica 6 million in a 10. on July 30th, 2009 at 2:01 am
As you guys put it, if Porto is corrupt how come they have never been caught and drastic measures taken against them like Juventus did when they got caught? They were relegated to the second division and they came back up.
Yes, if you agree money pay that innocence… Everyone in Portugal heard lot of calls to combine football results, but justice does not act because they say “is not the law”, isn´t funny
We are in Portugal, a beautifull but 3rd world country.
The kind of law that benfica fans want, and the only law that they will consider valid is the law that unfairly, and without evidence, can put FC Porto out of their way so they can win something….
TAS has ruled out every claim against PORTO, and you know who rules TAS?
Yep, European judges, not Portuguese judges (corrupted as you guys like to call them….)
All the Portuguese courts that analysed these processes had the same ruling: not guilty.
The psychosis that some benfica fans live never seizes to admire me, it is just plain fanaticism…
The only good and acceptable justice is my justice,
very democratic approach, in line with their glory years of support from a fascist regimen….
I imagine this post can be a bit agressive to the fans of those clubs, but in fact, all we want in the end is quality football.
All teams present did disapointing seasons, and nothing much is espected from them. For example, if you had Twentee there, I guess the level could rise a bit since we could be viewed as the best team in the lineup.
Ok, Ajax and Benfica are big clubs. But that’s that, they live from history of the past, and if it wasn’t for that they wouldn’t even be in these tournaments (except ajax - host).
Maybe this could be a starting point to give some more juice to the tournament and they will fight a little bit more for quality soccer.
ok, it´s our rules (Benfica fans), but isn´t correcto that the Porto President´s (Pinto da Costa) lived woth the prostitute (Carolina Salgado)??? Is that legal??? or you dont know that is a prostitute??? and that travell to Brasil for Calheiro (portuguese referee) that Porto paid??? If this is our rules… ok we are in good way for transparency in football…
Well done Benfica on winning the Tournament by the way…it was a entertaing tournament as i was there cheering Sunderland along with the other 6000 of us locked up in the visitors supporters enclosure..A good run out for all four teams and some much needed fitness work outs for the season ahead…..may see you lot there again next season as it was deemed another succesful tournament….
@Joe, Porto was deducted 6 points and their President was suspended for a year due to corruption attempt.
I don’t deny the fact that Porto is just the better team these days. I really believe that referee corruption doesn’t happen anymore. The referee’s involved were banned or are already retired and the scandals have had impacts within the referee council structure. I also believe most of the corruption didn’t happen in the latest years, but in the 80’s and 90’s.
These days Porto’s “tactic” is to help minor/struggling clubs in the first league by loaning them players and coaches and helping them. Setubal has 7 loaned players from Porto, as well as the ex-assistant manager. Olhanense has 6 players that belong to the ranks of Porto as well as a coach that was their ex-captain that was frequently seen chasing referees in the 90’s when he didn’t like their decisions.
I also remember a few seasons ago when Leiria was a satellite club for Porto, and they won 3-2 (I think) at home, and their coach was an ex-striker for Porto that resigned shortly afterward. Needless to say that the season after that Porto didn’t loaned them anyone and they ended up in getting relegated (when they had qualified to Europe the previous season).
Legal? Probably.. Fair? Probably not.. but I don’t think Porto even needs that to win. They have superior organization, better players and stronger mentality. I’d love to see a clean season without any suspicion.
PS: Even thou phone audio recordings were not valid in courts, I didn’t see anyone denying their existence. All I saw was Porto’s president claims that they were invalid and couldn’t be used as proof. The Portuguese legal system is very strict regarding audio and video evidences. If it were more like the American system, I think we’d have a lot less corruption in our country at all levels.
Marco, a very nice comment, i agree with you 100%.”I didn’t see anyone denying their existence. All I saw was Porto’s president claims that they were invalid and couldn’t be used as proof.” very good.
Was it just me who also heard Benfica’s Chairman phone call chosing the referee to Benfica’s next match ? The only fact is that Pinto da Costa was considered NOT GUILTY in all law actions moved against him. Even though the court DID accept the Phone Records as evidence wich it DID ! So stop talking about how Porto is favoured by the referees every year as you are talking about a Tem who won 3 Major European competitions recently and allways gets through the group stage of Champions League, last two years even won their groups. Plus if Porto manages to sell playerslike Deco, Carvalho, Ferreira, Bosingwa, Cissokho, Quaresma etc.. for millions don’t you think it’s becouse they really worth that much ? And with players worth 300 Millions playing for Porto in the last 10 years don’t you think it’s only natural that Porto wins more often ? The truth is the most Valueable team normaly wins more often…
@Ricardo Carneiro: sure, Juventus also sell good players, and Milan too and they ein too… BUT… they were GUILTY!!! So, for you the justice in Portugal is a good justice, you heard the phone calls, nothing happen and it´s normal… remember, other clubes (minor divisions) were relegated for the some… can you explain that? So, porto is the best, they have their president suspense but suspense of what??? NO ONE IN PORTUGAL IS ARESTED FOR BIGGER CRIMES!!!
Benfica president was found guilty by a portuguese court of a theft crime.
Benfica president was captured in phone calls with the same type of content of FCP president: result?!? One was charged the other wasn’t.
The single championship that benfica won in the XXI century, in the 2005 season, benfica sports director was also the owner of Estoril (a village in the lisbon area), very ethic, no?!?
Oh and by the way, in the ending games of that season, with benfica playing for the title and estoril playing to maintain their spot in the first division, they managed to change a game from estoril home field to the algarve, 300km away?!?!
Normal? Of course, it’s benfica interests that were on top of the table, so, who cares about estoril (by the way estoril was relegated to the second division).
Last year a benfica fan invaded the field of benfica stadium and he punched a referee. Result: 1500 € of fine to the club, no interdiction, no point penalties, no nothing…. cool isn’t it?
I could go on an on throwing histories and facts, probably the same way a benfica fan could do the same for FCPorto.
The lame excuses that these type of fans continue to throw out to justify their poor football are just ridiculous.
Play the game, respect your opponents, do a good planning, demand from your players, and most likely benfica will also win championships like porto do. If you guys keep on focusing on populist excuses, on an easy way to justify your failiures, most likely you will keep on being 3rd or 4th in the Portuguese league.
Benfica: 17 coaches in 15 seasons, thus this stat means anything!?!?
(yeah I know, you guys will probably say: it means corruption…. Lame, Lame, lame…)
If there is so much corruption in the Portuguese league, why change coach in every season?!? Not a very consistent policy, don’t you think?
I believe you know a lot about Benfica more than you know about porto
Talk about Benfica president WAS NOT CAPTURED IN PHONE CALL, it was other type of crimes… (inform before write please), but you know where he lives rigth know? In the best zone of London, where Jose Mourinho just lived… very bad no?
Dont talk about Estoril please, Porto has about 60 players loaned in 1st and 2nd divisions so… not so fast ok?
You are talking about fan invaded the field of Benfica stadium (one fan!!!), you probably you remember the fans who invaded the field of porto stadium to give punches in the TV journalist (direct on TV), what happen??? ah ok…
To finish, you know the leader of porto’s supporter has a Porshe and a big house and some shops, and discount to the portuguese stateminimum wage, funny. The some guy wrote a book and tell everyone about travell to see porto, the robbery to the station service and lot of shops, the strugles against their oponents… what happen to the Monkey??? Nothing.
Always finding themselves more important than they are!
I know as much of benfica, as you know of porto, not to say that this is an article about Porto and the majority of comments are from benfica fans, that says something no???
When I mentioned the benfica president, I meant the current president, not that former president that you guys elected with vast majorities, just because he was a anti-porto president, and that nowadays is secluded in london, figting against a court order that will make him to pass 7 years in prison in portugal.
But you’re correct benfica former president VALE e AZEVEDO is also a very funny character.
However the theft crime and the phone calls that I’ve talked about are related with current president Luis Filipe Vieira.
Porto in last season had 9 players on loan to 6 different league teams:
3 setubal
1 leixoes
1 rio ave
2 estrela da amadora
1 trofense
1 braga
That’s a little bit different from 60 players, don’t you think??
And more that those 24 players in Estoril team…. So take you conclusions.
This is a fact, not just another benfica reality (lala land).
The fans invading a field chapter:
- One will think that punching a referee with a game going on, is much worst than punching a journalist at the end of a game, with no one left in the stadium, (not that any of the aggressions are acceptable.) Don’t you think?? Probably not…
The last but yet very ridiculous claim about the stupid porto hooligans leader:
- Do you know that he also has 10 fingers and two eyes?
Don’t be ridiculous who cares about those stupid guys??
Just fans like yourself, because talking about porto hooligans, when you have your own benfica holigans is just stupid.
Supporters buses put on fire, hockey player put in a coma, assaults, burning people down, killing a fan in a stadium, arrested by possession of drugs and arm, just to mention some examples of the benfica choir supporters. Please give me a break…
HAHAHA please dont bu ridiculous… or just funny???
You can say that porto just have 10 ou 15 players loaned, i say that they have about 60!!! I HAVE A LIST!!! Everyone have that list. You say Benfica have 24 in estoril (1 team) Porto have 60 in 10 or 11 teams, take your conclusions…
The fans invading a field chapter:
That´s funny, i said the journalist was punched in a direct TV program, all people who watching the game saw!!! and yes, for me is the some punching a refree or a journalist (they have the some 2 eyes and 10 fingers).
About the stupid porto hooligans:
“who cares about those stupid guys??” the some guys who attacks everyone thats puts in porto presidents way? including politics and porto players??? yes, i care. About Benfica hooligans (Benfica not recognized as supporter as you know) yes, they must be arrested and punished. I agree with you but one differnce… I CARE!!!
When you say that porto wins in Europe and ask if it´s clean or not, i say that is the some when Benfica won in Europe and you say (like us) that Salazar ordered to Benfica win (and in Europe? Salazar ordered too?), think about it. Hope this year we have a good championish in Portugal without unfairs.
Always finding themselves more important than they are!
I know as much of benfica, as you know of porto, not to say that this is an article about Porto and the majority of comments are from benfica fans, that says something no???
When I mentioned the benfica president, I meant the current president, not that former president that you guys elected with vast majorities, just because he was a anti-porto president, and that nowadays is secluded in london, figting against a court order that will make him to pass 7 years in prison in portugal.
But you’re correct benfica former president VALE e AZEVEDO is also a very funny character.
However the theft crime and the phone calls that I’ve talked about are related with current president Luis Filipe Vieira.
Porto in last season had 9 players on loan to 6 different league teams:
3 setubal
1 leixoes
1 rio ave
2 estrela da amadora
1 trofense
1 braga
That’s a little bit different from 60 players, don’t you think??
And more that those 24 players in Estoril team…. So take you conclusions.
This is a fact, not just another benfica reality (lala land).
The fans invading a field chapter:
- One will think that punching a referee with a game going on, is much worst than punching a journalist at the end of a game, with no one left in the stadium, (not that any of the aggressions are acceptable.) Don’t you think?? Probably not…
The last but yet very ridiculous claim about the stupid porto hooligans leader:
- Do you know that he also has 10 fingers and two eyes?
Don’t be ridiculous who cares about those stupid guys??
Just fans like yourself, because talking about porto hooligans, when you have your own benfica holigans is just stupid.
Supporters buses put on fire, hockey player put in a coma, assaults, burning people down, killing a fan in a stadium, arrested by possession of drugs and arm, just to mention some examples of the benfica choir supporters. Please give me a break…
P.S: if you can please give the list of the 60 players in loan from porto to other firts division teams. I gave that list, you still giving me the benficas fans list, which by the way is not real… just by the way….
I’ve seen the list of the 60 players Ricardo Nel thinks Porto has loaned to other clubs in Portugal. It Includes:
Alan - Braga
Jorginho - Braga
Luís Aguiar - Braga
Evaldo - Braga
Bruno Vale - Setubal
This continues on and on with players who Porto never even bought like Aguiar, and other who are not Porto athletes for years now.
That same list includes as Porto fans a number of coaches wich would “make it easy” on Porto as their teams played against Porto. I don’t remeber very well all the names but in between was Eurico and Paulo Alves
The bottom point here is that at the end, last two seasons they finished 4th and 3rd ! So what are they complaining about ? They don’t even are Runners-Up. If anyone would have the right to say something was Sporting who got close. They were miles and miles away !!!
Since I understand that understanding the reality is not easy for you let me tell you as a little child:
Alan - WAS a porto player until 2007
Jorginho - Was a porto player until 2006
Luis Aguiar - sold by braga to dinamo moscow this summer for 2,5 million euros, SO HE IS NOT a porto player
EVALDO - a 27 years old player that was part of porto sub-21 team, more than 8 years ago, thus meaning that HE IS NOT a porto player.
Bruno Vale - is a porto player, that is loaned to setubal, but he is the nº 2 goalkeeper. He is included on the list that i gave you on the latest post.
The claim about the head coaches is even more ludicrous….
By that way of thinking, and since benfica have the largest number of supporters in portugal (no irony), one can also think that the majority of players are benfica supporters, that the majority of head coaches are benfica supporters, and that the majority of referees are benfica supporters…
The amount and level of excuses that you guys use, never seizes to amaze me…
Because Olhanense was not even playing the same competion that we did. Same reason Covilhã, Penafiel, Freamunde and Portimonense were not mentioned… The fact is, having young players developing in smaller clubs is a good way of making extra cash. Paulo Machado, Vieirinha and João Paulo were also loaned to other portuguese clubs before and now porto as made more from Paulo Machado, than Benfica from Katsoranis…
Olhanense was not in the 1st division last year my friend, i was talking about this year, dont try to fool people who dont know nothing about our poor football.
By the way, porto lost againt that giant… Asont villa.
Porto where never convicted of anything. They were deducted 6 points for attempted bribery, they didnt commit the crime they nearly committed the crime - http://bit.ly/MXCAg - Three teams, five referees punished in scandal.
Looks like they are not guilty to me. Until they are found guilty we have to state that they are not
something is wrong with your thoughts.. Oh right.. You don’t like being proven wrong so you talk BS to try and prove your point. Just admit you are wrong.
But then werent they punished for their crime? When you are charged for murder its not the same as when you are charged for attempted murder, Isnt that so? THey were deducted 6 points and fined €150 000. What do you think the court should have done? Juventus were guilty and were demoted to the second division
That´s justice!!! For me it´s the some crime do it or just attempted… 6 points??? dont make me cry please… they didnt need that 6 points or else they just had punish with 3… or 2… or nothing. this is that you dont understand. Juventus were relegated to 2nd division? thats justice.
In Cuba Fidel has allways rigth, even he doesnt… you know what i mean?
the penalty they wanted was the disappearance of FCP from Portuguese leagues (the only way to win something).
These kind of popular judges, to whom everything is wrong, the country is shit, the world is unfair, and son on… are of the same type of judges that when a benfica fan invades the field an makes an aggression to a referee, thinks that a fine of 1500€ is enough… or when their suspended president that is forbidden to meet with referees, goes to their cabin at the end of a game, and nothing happens….
they are only interested in their justice, and that’s a fanatic justice view, so don’t bother to argue…
Portuguese football from their perspective will only be a good and spectacular league when they are champions….
My friend anonymous porto´s fan: YOU ARE TOTALLY WRONG!!! If Benfica deserves go to the 2nd division, justice has to do what they has to do. Benfica, Porto, Sporting and so on and so on. Dont put words in my comments please.
And about our country be a shit country? YES IT IS, and dont talk just about football, dont you think??? or you just a politicion son, or similar?
Please leave Portugal and go contribute to another society that you find good for your standards…. please don’t look back!
By the way, I’m not posting to reply to your stories, I’m posting to inform, to put my opinion, and you don’t need to CAPS LOCK me because i can read perfectly….
Watch out for your blood pressure…
Liberty is a fact in society and in sports, after 1974.
I’m Pedro from Lisbon, a Post-Fascism football fan, thus a Porto supporter.
Joe, let’s just say I understand your “Until they are found guilty we have to state that they are not”. I also have that position concerning other cases.
I cannot however feel the same about this particular case. Way too many things to simply dismiss…
It’s important to state that no Court of Law as convicted Porto, or his president of anything! Our process as nothing to do with Juventus case. Untill now, Mr. Pinto da Costa as been found NOT GUILTY in all processes moved against him. Plus: The International Court of Arbitration for Sport in Lousanne, after taking knowledge of FC Porto vs UEFA process decided in FC Porto favour for as far as they could tell, FC Porto was to have the right to defend it self in a court of law, as it did. The fact is FC Porto was robbed for 6 points by a Comitte who found credible the statement of one and only one witness: Former Pinto da Costa ex-wife: Carolina Salgado. That same witness, wich was the base for FC Porto 6 points punishment is now acused of not saying the thruth in court and facing a criminal law suit ! In that same court Pinto da Costa was found Not Guilty.
One can argue why no measures were taken when a fan invaded Benfica’s field and punch a referee. Or why no one sayed nothing when Carlos Xavier and Litos were threatened to be fired by José Veiga who owned Estoril, at the same time that was Benfica’s director for Footbal. The fact is no other football director in Portugal had so many law suits in courts of justice, had his life so investigated, and get off so clean, foun Not Guilty of all charges !
“The fact is no other football director in Portugal had so many law suits in courts of justice, had his life so investigated, and get off so clean, foun Not Guilty of all charges !”
Maybe you missanderstood. I said “NO OTHER” than Pinto da Costa. Mr. Pinto da Costa has been investigated over and over again, has had tons of law suits moved against him and yet, every court and every trial found him NOT GUILTY. I think no other football director can say the same. Had José Veiga received the same atention from our police, when he was benfica’s Football Director in 2005 and maybe, things would be different for him. But a court of law can only decide on lawsuits that our police decides to investigate and deliveres to a prosecutor. Unfortunatly, in Portugal only Mr. Pinto da Costa desearves their atention. no Problem: As before and allways: NOT GUILTY.
It amazes me how you refuse to admit, even a little bit, that your president is involved in corruption.
I know he’s getting away with it, I read the news.
You claim he’s not guilty, but do you actually believe that?
Do you know how hard it is to prove corruption in our law system? Are you aware of the almost impossible and unimaginable evidence that is needed to convict someone for these type of crimes? Sports-related specially?
Those courts dismissed the recorded phone calls, a truckload of them, claiming they cannot be used as proof. So there they are, everyone knows they exist, what is said in them, who is talking, and yet they’re worth nothing.
I would like to know from porto fans, how can anyone prove that a clube pay a refree for a result. Please, explaine to me because i´m too stupid and i can´t see how can court prove it.
All phone record were accepted in de law suits ! What could not be proved was that FC Porto was in fact favoured in those games. Expert referees saw the games in video and pointed out a number of errors they think the referees comitted during those matches. The funny thing is all they agreed that in one match FC Porto had one goal from Benny Mccarthy scored, that did not count because of an off side that did not exist. And in the other game no special error were found.
In fact, yes they were. I was under the impression that they didn’t. My mistake. It’s strange however how nothing came out from those recordings because although, for example, they used initials to mention referees (JP) and “code” (”fruit”, “chocolate”…) it was obvious what they intended… The judges claimed they couldn’t establish a valid link between the terms used and what they could really mean… How lame!
Are you trying (as your president) that anyone read other comments? you are allways saying Benfica 15 seasons = 17 coaches. Nothing more to say?
Vale e Azevedo is not in prison
Felgueiras is not in prison
Valentim Loureiro is not in prison
Isaltino Morais is not in prison
Jose Socrates is not in prison
pinto da costa is not in prison
well… in Portugal who are in prison? black people, brasilian people, people who have no money…
You keep bringing the fact you were admitted to this years CL.
You’re just lucky UEFA isn’t taking into account crimes like Porto’s previous to 2007. If they were, your club players would be seeing CL from their couches this year.
UEFA; TAS; Portuguese Courts all had one single veredict:
- Not Guilty on any of the charges.
You can say whatever you want,the fact is that a group of diferent judges, from different intitutions looked at this case and all of them had the same conlusion.
Wishful thinking? How’s that? You mean beliving-all-is-okay-always-the-best-no-corruption-to-win wishful thinking? Really?
Wishful thinking as in heard-my-clubs-president-on-the-phone-talking-about-dessert-with-fellow-football-friends?
Really?
Or perhaps calheiros-case-was-a-lie-no-free-trips-to-brazil-no-checks-no-envelopes-no-prostitutes-no-ghost-real-estate-companies-no-money-vanishing-from-transfers wishful thinking?
Joe, I would like to thank you for expressing your views of this great sport with us even though sometimes I do not agree with them. But that is what makes this sport so great. I read all your posts and the vast majority is excellent. Today and for the first time, I have a comment to make that I hope you post:
Due to my work I lived in Portugal for 36 years and so I have many Portuguese friends’ supporters of the 3 major clubs. I was talking a week ago with one of them, a supporter of Sporting and he was telling me that his former club president said that in Portugal nobody can compete with Benfica and that in the Iberian Peninsula there is only 3 big: Real Madrid, Barcelona and Benfica. I was very surprised with such important Sporting supporter saying that. My friend was actually very upset about it….
Benfica is definitely a giant, I had two English friends that where Manchester United supporters and Benfica paying supporters at the same time, which I always found strange until I actually moved to Lisbon. I have on my travelling, people supporters of this team, in the most awkward places on earth. By the way they still are today paying supporters. Even in Oporto city the great majority of supporters are from Benfica which is very crazy.
About Oporto, it is true what they say about corruptions involving this team, even though strangely dismissed from the courts, the tapes exist and nobody can deny that. The things I read that came from those tapes, if it was in England, Oporto would be over for football. Corruption in Portugal is very bad, justice is slow and Courts defend the interests of some well connected people. That is why there was no guilt found.
Before I left Portugal the Portuguese league had found Oporto guilty for corruption and when it went to the Portuguese Football Federation level they delayed a decision on the case to “force” UEFA to have no reasons not to allow Oporto to play in the Champions League that year. (Last year)
Oh, and by the way a few years ago I heard that Oporto was being investigated by UEFA about an attempt to buy an international referee…I think it was in reference to a game with Bayern Leverkusen, but I am not sure about this….
Calling Benfica Facist team is the same to call me, an Englishman, a German Nazi…you need to really research about this before talking…. I was there during that time and like another person said: flags of Benfica were seen in manifestation against the regime.
I think you should write a good post, as you always do, about corruption in football, the cancer of this sport. I can’t forget the sad World cup in Korea/Japan were in my opinion some teams were pushed all the way to the end just perhaps because of money and in that I include Brazil. In the same suspicious level: the French European cup and world cup, the Italian and Portuguese league….. the list is long and if well researched can do a great story…..Please do a nice article for us on this matter as you can do so well.
Joe, thank you once more for your great posts.
“…they delayed a decision on the case to “force” UEFA to have no reasons not to allow Oporto to play in the Champions League that year. (Last year)”
You should add that in the first instance, UEFA excluded Oporto from their Champions League. When Benfica and Guimaraes apealed do TAS, the Portuguese Federation had allready concluded their decision and found Oporto guilty of two atempted corruption charges. Even so, TAS “forced” UEFA to accept Oporto in the Champions League. Do you believe Oporto has such a great importance that even an International Court would be under the influence of Oporto ? Why do you think TAS rejected Benfica’s appeal ?
Did you heard José Veiga and Luís Filipe Vieira tapes as well ? Do you know that in one of them we can ear benfica’s President choosing the referee he wants to a certain match in terms as if it was usual for him to do it ? Did you ever wonder why none of those records was investigated ?
What would happen to a club in England if a president was cought in a tape choosing the referees to his team matches ?
As for Benfica fans in Oporto. I live here and I can tell you that Benfica has very few supporters in this city. it’s true however that in the rest of the country, and in the North as well, they are by far the most supported team. But I can tell you for example that I work in a Callcenter with 350 persons and there are no more than 10 Benfica Fans, and only one Sporting Fan. All the rest is Oporto fanatics !
“Valentim Loureiro (VL) - Eu penso que ou o Lucílio… o António Costa, esse Costa não lhe dá… não lhe dá nenhuma garantia?
LFV - A mim?! F.., o António Costa? F… Isso é tudo Porto!
VL - Exacto, pronto! (…) E o Lucílio?
LFV - Não, não me dá garantia nenhuma o Lucílio!
VL - E o Duarte?
LFV - Nada, zero! Ninguém me dá!… Ouça lá, eu, neste momento, é tudo para nos roubar! Ó pá, mas é evidente! Mas isso é demasiado evidente, carago! Ó major, eu não quero nem me tenho chateado com isto, porque eu estou a fazer isto por outro lado.(…)
VL - Talvez o Lucílio, pá!
LFV - Não, não quero Lucílio nenhum!(…)
VL - E o Proença?LFV - O Proença também não quero! Ouça, é tudo para nos foder!”
In english (feel free to translate it yourselves)
VL - Maybe Lucílio… or António Costa… Would Costa be OK? Would Costa give you more confidence?
LFV - To me? Fuck, António Costa? Fuck that, it’s all Porto!
VL - Well, Ok then… What about Lucílio?
LFV - No way, I don’t trust Lucílio!
VL - Duarte maybe?
LFV - Nothing, zero! Can’t trust anybody… Look, right now, it’s all about fucking us up! Clearly! That’s fucking obvious! Look Major, I’ve tried to stay cool about this, even because I’m taking this through another path…
VL - Maybe Lucílio man!
LFV - No, I just don’t want Lucílio!
VL - Proença?
LFV - Don’t want no Proença! Look, they’re all about to fuck us up!
This call happened because the referee had to be changed at the last minute. Major Valentim Loureiro called Luis Filipe Vieira to know if he was OK with the improvised choice… I guess to shut him up or something… Reach your own conclusions.
The way I see it he was just showing he was fed up with portuguese referees…
You missed a part.
It seems you choose not to copy the entire story…here’s the rest:
FV - Nada, zero! Ninguém me dá!… Ouça lá, eu, neste momento, é tudo para nos roubar! Ó pá, mas é evidente! Mas isso é demasiado evidente, carago! Ó major, eu não quero nem me tenho chateado com isto, porque eu estou a fazer isto por outro lado. (…)
VL - Talvez o Lucílio, pá!
LFV - Não, não quero Lucílio nenhum! (…)
VL - E o Proença?
LFV - O Proença também não quero! Ouça, é tudo para nos f…!
VL - E o João Ferreira?
LFV - O João… Pode vir o João. Agora o que eu queria… (…) Disseram que era o Paulo Paraty o árbitro… O Paulo Paraty! Agora, dizem-me a mim, que não tenho preferência de ninguém (…) à última hora, vêm-me dizer que já não pode ser o Paulo Paraty, por causa do Belenenses.
___________________________________________________
VL - Bem, o gajo está f… (…) O Paraty então não consegues, não é?
PS - O Paraty não pode ser. (…) Até para os árbitros restantes, diziam assim: “É pá, que diabo, este gajo tem tantos internacionais e não tem mais nenhum livre, pá?!”. (…)
VL - Eu nem dá para falar muito ao telefone, que ele começa para lá a desancar. (…) Mas qual é o gajo que o Porto não quer?! O Porto quere-os todos, pá! Qualquer um lhe serve!
PS - É… Por acaso é verdade…
VL - O Porto quer lá saber disso!
PS - Se é o Lucílio… Se fosse o Lucílio, era o Lucílio, se fosse o António Costa, era o António Costa…
VL - Ao Porto qualquer um serve
I’ll translate only the missing part:
VL: What About João Ferreira ?
LFV: João ?… OK, João will do ! But who I wanted, and who I was told that would be nominee was Paulo Paraty ! And now, at the last minute they tell me that that I do not have any preferences ? That Paraty cannot be nominated because of Belenenses ?
___________________________________________________
VL: Man, the guy is fucked up ! Well… Paraty you can’t choose right ?
PS: Paraty, no can do ! What would all the referees say ?! “What a hell, from so many international referees, why does this guy has to choose this one ?!
VL: Well, I can’t even talk to him on the phone because he imediatly starts to get raise his voice… Do you know of a referee that Porto doesn’ like ? For Porto their all good, anyone will do !
PP: Yep.. you got a point there…
VL: Porto doesn’s give a shit about the referees…
PS: If it’s Lucilio, It’s Lucilio, If it was Antonio Costa, Antonio Costa it was…
VL: To Porto anyone will do !
The way I see it it was usual to confirm with Benfica’s president if he liked a certain referee. We can tell that luis Filipe Vieira was very upset becouse they were telling him this time that he did not have the right to choose the referee. As for Porto it seems that Porto did not give much importance to the matter…
One note about the last post. PS was Pinto de Sousa. The “chairman” of the referee commitee that chose the referees to each game. After talking to LFV on the phone, Valentim Loureiro called Pinto de Sousa to see what could he do to change the referee…
Honestly didn’t know about that part. I agree with you thought, Porto doesn’t give a flying fuck about wich refs get nominated… If you know what I mean.
LFV did well there. Given the choice, he opted to express his dislike towards the usual suspects, and accepted the only one who gave him the prospect of a cleaner game.
He would have done a lot better though if he simply told Major to go shove that ref-picking conversation up is a**.
By the way, “Qualquer um lhe serve!” doesn’t exactly translate into “Porto doesn’s give a shit about the referees…” it’s more like “For Porto, any ref will do” which is quite different.
Translation accepted ! Your’s is more accurate ! But still I don’t thing it changes that much the meaning of what was said. LFV would in fact have done a lot better if he told major to shove that ref-picking conversation up his ass, but I’m sure that it was him who was more interested in changig the name of the ref. Plus, I don´t believe that he was given that choice… It’s more likely that he looked for a way that he could have that choice. wich he did. As for the “I’m taking this through another path…”, one can say he probably had figured out a way to influence the right “inspectors” to start the “Apito Dourado” process, looking to the “north” side only. Lets not forget that this record was cought on VL phone. Aparently LFV phone was never “bugged”. When you are the leader of a 6 million suporters club in a 10 million citizens country, you get a lot of power…
Ok Ricardo Carneiro, you (porto fans) allways talking about this game and this coice, but isnt true that porto’s president received several refree in HIS HOME to “take some coffe” and “eta some fruit”? you denied that too??? And porto’s president was involved about 5 years with a prostitute (yes, Reinaldo Teles dominates the prostitution in Oporto city).
You said in an early post that living with a prostitute was a crime ?!? What do you mean by that, and whats your point ? We allways talk about that game and that choice, just as you allways talk about Duarte and fruit ! No it is not true, would you be so kind to tell us all wich other referees went to Mr Pinto da Costa house ? And how do you know that ? As far as I know, there is only one case… and you allways talk about this case and this choice.
I believe i didn´t said LIVING with a prostitute was a crime, i believe that i said, in Portugal THE PROSTITUTION is a crime!!! So i ask, where are the justice judging that prostitute or that bar “Calor da Noite” where she comes from? One more time i say in Portugal everyone knows everything but they don´t do nothing…
My beloved Portuguese friends you love to live in constant cloud of suspicious against each other. While you all fight internally, externally Portugal is losing power and more power. FCP is not enough nowadays to keep Portugal well classified in the EUFA. Then, just think, for all of you FCP, Benfica and Sporting supporters: If I was supporter of a team where that a cloud of suspicion is constantly around I would be a little more careful of boosting around my team’s achievements I would feel much better if my team had won fair and square because then they were definitely the best, like Oporto did when it won the two champions league and the UEFA cup.
Your football is covered with players from other countries there is almost no support for the “cantera”; referees have no quality, are pressed by a myriad of influences; etc, etc and etc…..a football soon in the brink of extinction, if not already there…. You all have to wake up…. As a deep lover of Portuguese football, it is sad to even think that Portuguese teams soon won’t even be able to get to the top European competitions.
Look what is going on from last year to this year: last year you started with 3 teams for the champions’ league and 3 or 4 for the Europe league. FCP as champion got direct qualification and SCP too, Guimaraes had to do an elimination round. This year FCP is the group stage SCP had to play 2 elimination stages and there was no Portuguese 3 team. I don’t think I need to say anything about the UEFA league, you are all well aware off.
To conclude the personal interest of some is destroying the rest.
I did hear the tape of LFV and I agree with the Eyes wide open comment on 12:57 AM I would just add something to it: “By the way, “Qualquer um lhe serve!” doesn’t exactly translate into “Porto doesn’s give a shit about the referees…” it’s more like “For Porto, any ref will do” which is quite different.” Any ref will do because they take care of all of them.
I’m not a supporter of Benfica, Oporto or Sporting, actually I vibrated with the win of Oporto in the 2 champions leagues and the UEFA cup… what a great lesson of football to the European superpower… as I vibrated with all the 2 or 3 finals that Benfica was able to reach in the European competitions, as well as with Sporting championships conquests….
Portuguese, press your people that occupy positions of responsibility to stop destroying such a beautiful support and be honest. The World football needs a strong Portugal. When the underdog wins football becomes greater.
Let’s face it, we are all fanatics, and we are in no position of judging each others. If benfica wins this year league, they will say that footbal in portugal is wonderfull, the curruption is over an so on. On the other side, probably porto supporters will have se same excuses that nowadays benfica supportes have. If Porto wins he league this year (fifth in a row) benfica fans will say that it was due to referees, to the weather, to world depression and so on…
The cycles are just that cycles, there is no racionalism in footbal even from “british” non-fans.
Post-Fascism Fan, I am actually Scottish and my English is bad because I am typing on my cell phone, it’s hard for my old age to type on this touch screens…
What you said is exactly your guys problem: Do everything to win, and as long as I win who cares about the results of my action or their consequences… it sounds like that French King “after me the deluge”…that is why Portugal is the way it is…not judging just stating the facts… truth hurts and like the Portuguese like to say “onde a fumo a fogo” ,I think is the way you say it. If everybody there likes the way things are, why change? Anyway, up to you guys… form me is go Rangers, go Manchester…and FCP, SLB, SCP the best of lack for your games.
Excelent article, show that you are well-informed.
The FCPORTO is current best club in Portugal, with best attendance, with more titles internacionals, with more money, most respected for opponents, etc…
benfica…well benfica is only Portuguese club that:
- …have ex-president in prison;
- …was saved by the Portuguese tax authorities not to fall for division;
- …have a president who has been caught in dinner with league liders;
- …paid to a prostitute for write the book for denigrate the Porto presidente
“BENFICA is a club to regime of Portugal”??? What are you talking about??? porto is most respect by opponents?? BENFICA psid to a prostitue (ex-girlfriend porto’s president) to write a book??? what are you talking about? Are you reading porto’s newspaper? LOL
I would like to answer guys that allways saying that Benfica’s president is in jail:
“Nuno Mendes Espregueira, administrator of the FC Porto Media and former director of DSS, was sentenced today (26.06.09) in the Court of St. John New, in Porto on 6 years of actual imprisonment for swindling qualified. His lawyer, Gil Moreira dos Santos will appeal the ruling, so the completion of the sentence is suspended”
For example, the FC Porto lent 2.5 million euros to the normal margin of the bank and borrowed the Joaquim Oliveira a little more than 10 million. The Adelino Caldeira, director of FC Porto, SAD was also granted a loan of 2.1 million, while Antonio Oliveira, main shareholder of individual SAD portista was covered with loans of around 2.5 million.”
you can see the all story (in portuguese) in http://www.record.pt/noticia.aspx?id=793201&idCanal=17
I can talk about “Pinto da Costa driver ran over a
journalist and escape”. I don´t need help porto fans needs.
We didnt tak about 3 mans beating in Adriano because he doesn´t want to go to other clubs… I tinhk YOU need some help, i´m ok.
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Joseph Misika is a web applications developer at the Mail&Guardian Online. He has been working there for just under 3 years now but has been playing around with web applications for more years than that.
A student at heart and always looking to learn new stuff. He is currently focused on web development, linux (think there is more to linux than we know) and gaming (Playstation). His interests range from sports to development. In the future looking to build a media & technology empire. Favourite teams are Mamelodi Sundowns (SA) and Manchester United (abroad).
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I won’t explain you much, because I don’t think you comment worths it, but… Benfica had 8 european finals..and surprise: 3 of them in 1982/1983, 1987/88 and 1989/90. Benfica didn’t stop winning championships: 1974/75, 1975/76, 1976/77, 1980/81, 1982/83, 1983/84, 1986/87, 1988/89, 1990/91, 1993/94, 2004/05.
i agree sunderland are not the big pull that the amsterdam tournament once had but your reference to boosting local tourism, it is reported we are taking 4500 fans over, i bet thats 10 times more than some so called bigger teams have taken before!
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